Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news

[Phil Thien]

Honestly, Steve, you don't get it.  PTI's response is the other side of the same coin, both sides lobbying the government.  It's the same thing.  Do you think that if the PTI's members had the SS technology and wanted to promote it, they wouldn't be lobbying the CPSC, OSHA and everyone else in the government to mandate its use for all federally funded contractors???  Really, that's the system.

I have to agree w/ Steve here, the industry was responding to attempts by SS to IP them out of the marketplace, they were being reactive where SS was being proactive.

[Admiral]

. . . . . . . the industry was responding to attempts by SS to IP them out of the marketplace, they were being reactive where SS was being proactive.

Phil, that's it exactly, the industry responds, proactively too (I'm sure that position paper was put in front of the regulator), and puts the their view of the facts before the CPSC, lobbying the same body for a different result.  No better or no worse than what SS is doing.  Its a game played by all industries and all players in those industries.  Obviously SS was not successful on the merits, but again, is their action so aberrant that it would get everyone's panties in a wad?  This is my sole point, its simply the way regulatory lobbying works.

[Steve N]

Admiral, and here I thought you had some legal experience. Complainant files wild suit. Then the defendants issue a response to the wild suit. This is the response, just giving facts as they see them to the clueless people at CPSC. Everything CPSC states as the problem are all these amputations, and injuries. I have previously stated they are NOT looking at the rational reasons for why people get hurt. Allan posts the gist of the PTI piece that the injuries are caused because the users don't use the basic guards that are supplied with the saw. Gass contends everyone needs a finger nanny, experienced, safety oriented TS users don't agree.

There is nothing there where TPI tried to mandate a design standard, only a response to a wild claim.

[Richard D.]

I can only speak for what I have seen locally. Edward Mueller is the place to buy strong home owner, and commercial, from light to heavy machinery. Yes they sell SS, however they don't push them, and they make up a small % of total TS sales. Commercial shops are being forced to buy "safety TS's" of which SS has been thrown into the pot describing them. Those guys have to satisfy what their insurance says is "safe". If you go in there to buy a safe, insurance company approved commercial TS you will be shown any number of very safe Euro saws as Joe has already suggested. If you are a home owner you would have to ask specifically for a SS in order to see one. They would offer you a very safe PM, or Delta with a RK, and a full guard long before they would offer you a SS. Are they jaded SS haters, NO. They simply understand what the public wants, and by and large it doesn't want the SS. This is also why Griz sales on TS's is so strong. Delta sales suc on TS, because as a company the new Delta sux. PM are strong with the mustard paint crowd. You are believing "fake news" when you believe SS is the only saw selling in America. Absolutely none of the millions of used saws out there from before SS many of which are swapped and traded every year are ever counted in saws sold. America does not want a finger nanny. I will continue to use that term to describe them, as that is what you are buying, when you buy a SS. If you want one, that is free market, buy yourself one. I and millions of Americans choose not to, that is also free market.

Oddly enough when I click on that link the first thing that comes up is a SS. When you click on the Home Page the first item is a SS. So if that is them "not pushing them" and  "make up a small % of total TS sales", I'm confused????

So you go ahead and support all those foreign companies that Mueller (sounds German) sells. Me, I'll continue to wave the Red, White and Blue and support an American owned company like SawStop.

[JGrout]

So you go ahead and support all those foreign companies that Mueller (sounds German) sells. Me, I'll continue to wave the Red, White and Blue and support an American owned company like SawStop.

constructed in Taiwan....  nothing like capitalism at it very best An American lawyer defending patents on machines made overseas with cheap labor 

You cannot make this stuff up

[AHill]

constructed in Taiwan....  nothing like capitalism at it very best An American lawyer defending patents on machines made overseas with cheap labor 

You cannot make this stuff up

Jet and Powermatic (WMH Group) were bought out by Tenex, an American company in 2013.  Of course, Jet and Powermatic tools are now made in China and Taiwan as well.  Although I never really thought of Jet as an American company.  At least Powermatic used to make its tools in the USA.

[AlanBienlein]

My local Woodcraft can't keep sawstops in stock. He commented that no sooner he gets them in and put in the back he's pulling them right back out. Amazing considering the first saws you see in the window are the powermatics.

[Admiral]

constructed in Taiwan....  nothing like capitalism at it very best An American lawyer defending patents on machines made overseas with cheap labor 

You cannot make this stuff up

Ok, what tablesaw is made in the US?  I can't think of any.

Oh, and throw away your cell phone and laptop, as many of the essential patents for wireless communication and pc operating systems are held by US companies but everything is made overseas . . . . .

[JGrout]

I think you missed the point 

irony and capitalism 

oil and water 

yada yada 

Oh and Martin and Northfield are still made in the USA so they do exist

[Admiral]

Oh and Martin and Northfield are still made in the USA so they do exist

I thought Martin was German, I could be wrong, but Northfield clearly is, forgot about them, likely because they are 4x the price of a Powermatic, not exactly a hobbyist's saw.