Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news

[JGrout]

Does the Sawstop lead to more unsafe habits as people think that they have a safety feature that will save them

Based on what I have seen and heard yes. 

from earlier:  


SS states emphatically that finger sensing technology does not preclude the need for safety guards to be installed and used even on their saws.

Of the half dozen SS I have seen in working shops 1 had the guard in place 

that is what I am referring to when I say one should take the time and set the saw up to be used responsibly by the end user 

providing one more layer of safety and removing three that are required seems to me to be pretty irresponsible 


And those are the ones I have seen in person. if that held true across the board (I expect it does) then what is the point? trading off the safety features mandated to be provided ( and used) for the one that is not? 

Seriously this is about as bad as it could get

[rschissler]

Quote:from earlier:  


SS states emphatically that finger sensing technology does not preclude the need for safety guards to be installed and used even on their saws.

Of the half dozen SS I have seen in working shops 1 had the guard in place 
Based on what I have seen and heard yes. 


that is what I am referring to when I say one should take the time and set the saw up to be used responsibly by the end user 

providing one more layer of safety and removing three that are required seems to me to be pretty irresponsible 


And those are the ones I have seen in person. if that held true across the board (I expect it does) then what is the point? trading off the safety features mandated to be provided ( and used) for the one that is not? 

Seriously this is about as bad as it could get
I agree that guards should be used, but Joe is making it sound like the people using the Sawstop think they don't need the guard because of the safety technology in place.

I agree that guards should be used, but Joe is making it sound like the people using the Sawstop think they don't need the guard because of the safety technology in place.

Maybe Joe could visit non-Sawstop shops and report how many of those saws have guards in place?  I suspect the findings will be very similar.

[JGrout]

I agree that guards should be used, but Joe is making it sound like the people using the Sawstop think they don't need the guard because of the safety technology in place.

Maybe Joe could visit non-Sawstop shops and report how many of those saws have guards in place?  I suspect the findings will be very similar.

I have already.  I am not here to say we are all good stewards of TS safety on old technology saws.  The point is however if that mindset changed this would be a non issue. That sir is my message 

The irony of the situation seems to elude most everyone 

All saws  sold in the US require a blade cover splitter/riving knife and anti kickback pawls including SS.  The amount of the saws actually using them is way beyond belief low.  This is in both pro and hobby shops.  How do I know this? I have seen a lot of shops over the years. I do not judge individually(although there seems to be a lot here somehow that think I am tiresome with the message) other than to say you would benefit from using a saw with the supplied safety features provided.  Additionally, a simple google search for TS pics tells the same story. 

If only people would stop attacking me for providing the message that using the guards supplied would dramatically reduce  the amount of TS accidents and look at the reality of what is provided is to date all that is required then actually use the supplied guards, this entire discussion would be limited to a discussion about how nice it is to have a guard in place. Just think that when my ill placed fingers touched the properly mounted guard I was reminded before I went any further of the fact that round thingy under that guard is spinning fast and I had best move my fingers before  I LOSE THEM 

Touch is a wonderful sense; one so sensitive that we know that imminent danger is upon us. Seriously, do you just hold on to something hot or do you drop it knowing it will continue to burn if you don't let go? 

The same thing applies with the guard:  If the supplied guard is blocking further advancement of your hand or fingers what are you going to do? Push harder?  
I expect you are going to reassess the situation and move your fingers..........  Seems Simple enough to me

Which leads to the brutal truth : everyone has been conditioned that we are MANLY MEN and we don't need no stinking guards bothering us 

Then the really ironic part is someone actually does cut off a finger or three because they did not use a guard and all the sudden the TS gawd from on high has the solution with finger sensing technology and we can save what is left of our fingers. Additionally,   we do not have to use those STINKING GUARDS  so we have in essence been saved from ourselves or at least that is how  it is rationalized in our mind

Yes that is right the TS gawd is saving us from ourselves because we are too stubborn to realize how simple the solution is. 

[Downwindtracker2]

I have a early 90s Unisaw which I bought new. It's a hobby saw. When I bought the saw I planned to use the guard, ordering ten beer at a time was important to me. The guard was such a piece of junk, it twisted and jammed causing more hazard . It came off within two days. The splitter and kick back claws stayed, but the plastic went on to the shelf where still is. I thought about getting a Excalibur over arm, but my router table is part of the wing.

You can't blame anyone for removing that piece of junk.

[JGrout]

I have a early 90s Unisaw which I bought new. It's a hobby saw. When I bought the saw I planned to use the guard, ordering ten beer at a time was important to me. The guard was such a piece of junk, it twisted and jammed causing more hazard . It came off within two days. The splitter and kick back claws stayed, but the plastic went on to the shelf where still is. I thought about getting a Excalibur over arm, but my router table is part of the wing.

You can't blame anyone for removing that piece of junk.

did it ever dawn on you that someone may have been able to help out if you would have asked And on top of that you never pursued looking into a different one. 

[Downwindtracker2]

Yeah, I thought about designing and building one to hang off the ceiling. Parallel arms, springs. aluminum , and polycarbonate. You could add DC into as well. A lot cheaper than buying the guard off a General 350. If a Delta Unisaw guard was that useless, how could you expect anyone to use the guard? And what about all the cheaper saws.

I fellow the rule " Keep 12" away to keep 10 fingers". My TS is littered with push sticks.

[JGrout]

what have you been using the past 20 yrs then?

Do you see my point? 

Also Unisaw guards  are not useless, in fact I've worn out my personal one and know of a few others that have been replaced with the OEM.  Now you have to look elsewhere but capable guards exist for reasonable money 

 

No one has the patience I guess and rationalizes it as a reason not to use it.

JME 

Joe

[Alan S]

Joe:

Your message that a tablesaw guard is effective and should be used, is perfectly reasonable.  It might be better heard if people did not associate the advice only with Sawstop threads.

[Downwindtracker2]

It was simple, they expected a holes in sheet metal and the plastic to act as a bearing. Had they added material at both locations, it might have worked. It wouldn't have gone sideways.There was a reason the Delta cost $300 less than the General and came with a more deluxe Uinfence than the simple Beismeyer. A token of a guard was one of them.

Of course there are guards that work, the General and old Unisaws, come to mind. My point is if someone as safety conscious as me with no production demands, pulls the flimsy plastic, what about the guys under the gun. Being woodworkers they are not going to take it apart and use the splitter and anti kick back claws,instead they are just going to pull the whole unit off.

[Steve N]

It was simple, they expected a holes in sheet metal and the plastic to act as a bearing. Had they added material at both locations, it might have  worked. It wouldn't have gone sideways.There was a reason the Delta cost $300 less than the General and came with a more deluxe Uinfence than the simple Beismeyer. A token of a guard was one of them.

Of course there are guards that work, the General and old Unisaws, come to mind. My point is if someone as safety conscious as me with no production demands, pulls the flimsy plastic, what about the guys under the gun. Being woodworkers they are not going to take it apart and use the splitter and anti kick back claws,instead they are just going to pull the whole unit off.

I have a General 350 with a complete guard, and I still bought a Shark Guard for it. They are my fingers, and I didn't really care for the General guard. I do love my Shark, and use it with everything but non through cuts. There I usually use the runt splitter when applicable. My fence is a Vega, and I use all of the safety devices they ever made, as well as a full array of push sticks, and blocks.

Below are a few pics of my Vega stock pusher. The guards are off so nothing is blocked. Usually I have the anti kickback pawl further down, and the roller further up, but I squeezed them in so they would all be in the same field. IOW a staged picture. If I were actually making this cut, the guard would be in place.





And No that blade is NOT spinning


Alan S, you haven't been looking in the right threads. Joe, myself and a few others emphasize guards, making good choices on the right tool for the job, and a large bunch of safety related info on a regular basis.