Veneer

[PaDutchman]

I'm making 1/4" (11"X19") panels for a bed. I'm planning on veneering Birdseye maple veneer to either MDF or plywood. I'm aware of the general guidelines that you must veneer both sides of the panel. Is that true also if I veneer on plywood? Best to use contact cement, PVA, or other glue? Appreciate any suggestions since in spite of considerable woodworking experience, this is my first go at veneering.

[jteneyck]

Yep, veneer both sides, even on plywood.  PVA, plastic resin glue, or epoxy, but I would not use contact cement. 

John

[zaret]

veneer both sides.  plastic resin glue is terrific stuff for veneering, i particularly like unibond 800 with the thickener.  in lieu of that, PVA is fine, just harder to work with if you're covering a big area as your working time is low.  careful with epoxy - that stuff bleeds through everything.  i've ruined panels with epoxy, not because of adhesion issues, but because the veneer became saturated with epoxy during the cure.

<edit>you don't have to use the same veneer on the back - use a cheaper veneer - i keep poplar around for backs and such. just make sure the grain aligns with the front.</edit>

good luck with your project.

---dz

[atgcpaul]

I have recently used plastic resin glue (PRG) for veneer and it worked out fine. I have also used white and yellow glue for veneer and you do have to work a little faster, but cleanup is easier, and since you're using maple veneer, I suggest it over PRG because the glue dries clear/yellow instead of brown like PRG. I have experienced some bleed through with thin commercial veneers so that's why I suggest the PVA over PRG in this case.

[jteneyck]

I have recently used plastic resin glue (PRG) for veneer and it worked out fine.  I have also used white and yellow glue for veneer and you do have to work a little faster, but cleanup is easier, and since you're using maple veneer, I suggest it over PRG because the glue dries clear/yellow instead of brown like PRG.  I have experienced some bleed through with thin commercial veneers so that's why I suggest the PVA over PRG in this case.

You can buy Unibond 800 with a light colored catalyst, which is specifically made for light colored woods.   PVA is fine, but PRG is far better especially with thicker shop sawn veneer.  And once Ken Vick convinced me to glue the seams together after taping I've never had any glue leak through a seam.  I don't know if you can edge glue really thin commercial veneer, but with shop sawn veneer it's a major benefit.  Glue won't leak through and, after the glue dries, you have one large panel that's much easier to handle than before. 

The prior comment about epoxy seeping though commercial veneer is very true; it seems to find even the tiniest hole and bleed through.  That's another reason I use shop sawn veneer whenever possible.  Plus, I'm cheap.  It's far less expensive to make my own veneer than buy the more difficult to work with in nearly every respect commercial stuff.  

John

[AHill]

Both sides, and if one side isn't a show side, then you don't have to use an expensive veneer on that side - you can use something less expensive.

[Rob Young]

Both sides, and if one side isn't a show side, then you don't have to use an expensive veneer on that side - you can use something less expensive.

The above for panels that float in their joinery.  

Taking it one step further, sometimes you add a counter veneer under your show veneer.  But this would be for cases where you need to oppose the grain direction of the core.  The back or hidden side would likewise get two backing veneers with opposing orientations.  Plywood or MDF wouldn't necessarily need this operation unless for some reason it was thin plywood and the only piece available had its outer skins in the same grain direction as the show veneer.  More common if making up core from solid wood.

However for things like drawer fronts, when the drawer is built with joinery like a sliding dovetail or half-blind dovetails, one can veneer just one face and be fine.  Classic example would be a Federal style small table with its drawer done up in a fancy walnut burl.  The drawer front is 7/8" thick "boring" walnut but the fancy burl makes it look spiffy.  And when you open the drawer it just looks like a regular drawer from the top and inside.

[SteveS]

Contact cement only if you have paper backed veneer.

Unibond 800 is the preferred adhesive of professionals and I think some people use WeldWood plastic resin glue as well. You can also use glues such as Better Bond or Cold Press glues made for veneering jobs. In a pinch you can use regular woodworking glues, but it's less desired.

If you don't have a vacuum press set up then make you have a way of uniformly distributing a high amount of load on your panels through many cauls or plates. otherwise you may end up with areas that bubble up over time as the bond weakens.

With thick pieces of plywood you can get away without a backer veneer, but thinner pieces of plywood will have a high probability of warping.

[FloridaRetiree]

I'm making 1/4" (11"X19") panels for a bed. I'm planning on veneering Birdseye maple veneer to either MDF or plywood. I'm aware of the general guidelines that you must veneer both sides of the panel. Is that true also if I veneer on plywood? Best to use contact cement, PVA, or other glue? Appreciate any suggestions since in spite of considerable woodworking experience, this is my first go at veneering.

Even on small thin panels like that it would probably be wise to maintain an odd number of veneers.

You don't say what type and thickness of veneers you shall be using?  But then on a small panel this is not all that critical.  

Generally, in good and successful veneering, everything is important -- the veneers, the glue, the substrate and equal finishing on both sides.

On a personal note:  I sold my shop over 20 years ago but when in operation one of my specialties was building (mostly cabinetry) covered with veneers (usually very costly exotics), on both flat or curvilinear surfaces.

I could go on and on and on and bore you to tears about successes and failures.

As a non-pro, enjoying this great craft is paramount.

Cheers!

Beachcomber Bob

[Steve N]

Both sides, hide glue, and hammer veneer, unless you have already paid for a bag and pump. Veneer work need not be expensive. My wallet yelps if I think about going to Joe Woodworker. Beside, and especially if it is your first attempt to veneer, with hide glue it's 100% reversible if it needs to be. Little moisture, just add heat/steam and you can peel it right back off, redo it several times until you feel it's right.