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Hi, I am new the forum. The name is Harry Page, and I am relatively new to woodworking. I consider myself a "hybrid" woodworker in the sense that I utilize both power and hand tools. However, I am starting to use hand tools more and more in the projects I complete. I am considering purchasing a Tenon Saw, as I am doing my M&T joints with hand tools. I was just on the Lee Valley website and see they have a Veritas Rip Tenon Saw. The saw is little more money than I was looking to spend, but I wanted to get some feedback if anyone owns the saw, and if they have any other suggestions.
Harry
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11-28-2017, 12:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2017, 12:29 PM by Phil S..)
Hi Harry-
Welcome to the forum.
The Veritas saws have a good reputation as a quality saw best buy. I have the dovetail saw. You'll have a hard time finding a better new saw for less money.
My personal preference is for a saw with a heavier back though.
You're choices in a cheaper saw are a modern one, either western or a pull cut, or buying a used saw and refurbing it yourself. Inexpensive modern saws are likely to be impulse hardened and may get you by until you're sure your interest is there, but you will be struggling with a second rate saw that you will want to replace anyhow.
My choice in your situation would be a used back saw that you could clean up and learn to sharpen, a skill that would be useful for you in the future anyhow. Lots of info here and elsewhere on how to go about it. Again my preference is for Disstons from the early part of the 20th century when handsaws were the only game in town and made to professional standards. They had good steel and lots of them were made so they are relatively inexpensive if not in show room condition. The first one I bought was a horror show with wildly filed teeth (bad cows and calves), but decent wood. I probably spent more for the files I used than for the saw.
Good luck on your hunt and hope you find something that will help with your learning process.
Phil
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Most Veritas tools are considered 'very good value'. Their backsaws, though not 'sexy', are very good for the price and performance.
Older user tools may be competitive in price, but look in the Woodnet S&S forum first, and preferably for a freshly filed and tuned saw. A fixer can be very discouraging, and expensive to get operational. If you are like me, you want a user up front, not frustration. And, I never buy rust that I haven't dirtied my hands with first.
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I've not tried the Veritas tenon saw, but their dovetail and carcase saws are very easy to use. I used to have a 14" Lie-Nielsen tenon saw. I found it very grabby and hard to start. That may have been more due to my technique than their saw. Once you get up to that size, there's a bit of a learning curve. The Veritas saws are very easy to start, but that comes with a compromise in cutting speed.
Still Learning,
Allan Hill
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Been using an older Disston No.4, 14" filed rip........as my go-to saw at the bench. Includes dovetails, and box joints...and tenons. Starts easy, saws straight, inspite of the operator....Fits the hand nicely. I did have it sharpened a while back.....works like new.
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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(11-28-2017, 12:24 PM)Phil S. Wrote: Hi Harry-
Welcome to the forum.
The Veritas saws have a good reputation as a quality saw best buy. I have the dovetail saw. You'll have a hard time finding a better new saw for less money.
My personal preference is for a saw with a heavier back though.
You're choices in a cheaper saw are a modern one, either western or a pull cut, or buying a used saw and refurbing it yourself. Inexpensive modern saws are likely to be impulse hardened and may get you by until you're sure your interest is there, but you will be struggling with a second rate saw that you will want to replace anyhow.
My choice in your situation would be a used back saw that you could clean up and learn to sharpen, a skill that would be useful for you in the future anyhow. Lots of info here and elsewhere on how to go about it. Again my preference is for Disstons from the early part of the 20th century when handsaws were the only game in town and made to professional standards. They had good steel and lots of them were made so they are relatively inexpensive if not in show room condition. The first one I bought was a horror show with wildly filed teeth (bad cows and calves), but decent wood. I probably spent more for the files I used than for the saw.
Good luck on your hunt and hope you find something that will help with your learning process.
Phil Thanks for the feedback. I have been checking the Tool Swap section on this site, and also looking at flea markets and yard sales. What is your recommendation for the dept of cut? Is 3 - 3/4" a good dept of cut on a tenon saw?
Harry
“Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything."
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Harry, here's the thing, going vintage means that unless you are going to devote a considerable amount of time to learning to sharpen saws properly, your best bet is to get one that has been sharpened by someone who knows what they are doing. I occasionally sell saws that are properly sharpened, but haven't gotten any shop time to get stuff like that done. "Enjuneer" on this forum often sells vintage sharpened saws, and he knows what he is doing, so drop him a PM and maybe he has something he can fix you up with.
Otherwise, I have to second the Lee Valley molded back saws, a most excellent value in a new saw, there's a couple for sale right now in the S&S at a good price, don't know if the seller will split 'em up as one is rip and one CC. There is also something to be said about starting with a proper saw rather than trying to figure out how to clean, polish, sharpen, set a saw if you've never done it before. It took me about half a dozen saws before I could honestly say I can do it correctly, and another dozen before I would offer my saws for sale as "freshly sharpened" with confidence that they had been sharpened correctly.
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(11-28-2017, 04:07 PM)Harry Page Wrote: Thanks for the feedback. I have been checking the Tool Swap section on this site, and also looking at flea markets and yard sales. What is your recommendation for the dept of cut? Is 3 - 3/4" a good dept of cut on a tenon saw?
Harry
Depth of cut depends on what you plan to use it for. Around 3-3/4" depth of cut seems fairly standard, but it may be overkill for small work and too small if you're sawing humongo tenons like I've seen in some work benches.
You getting a bunch of good advise from some knowledgeable guys here. There is certainly value in getting a good sharp saw from the get go so you know how one is supposed to work when properly set up. Another option that hasn't been mentioned yet is to go to a woodworking show where you'd have a chance to try out several saws to see what suits you. You haven't mentioned what neck of the woods you inhabit. Opportunities are better in some places than others. You maybe close to someone here that may be willing to help you out a bit or suggest some places to check. Which way you go depends on how much time you have, what you want to do with the saw and how much you care to spend.
Good luck-
Phil
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(11-28-2017, 09:06 AM)Harry Page Wrote: Hi, I am new the forum. The name is Harry Page, and I am relatively new to woodworking. I consider myself a "hybrid" woodworker in the sense that I utilize both power and hand tools. However, I am starting to use hand tools more and more in the projects I complete. I am considering purchasing a Tenon Saw, as I am doing my M&T joints with hand tools. I was just on the Lee Valley website and see they have a Veritas Rip Tenon Saw. The saw is little more money than I was looking to spend, but I wanted to get some feedback if anyone owns the saw, and if they have any other suggestions.
Harry
Harry,
We have a guy here on Woodnet who has enjuneer as his handle. He does superb work on vintage handsaws. Tell him what your desires are and let him select a saw suited for your work. IMHO his prices are reasonable and you won't be disappointed with what you receive from him.
r2
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Hi, Harry. Welcome to the forum.
I agree with the advice others have offered: either buy a new saw, like a Veritas from Lee Valley, or one the has been refurbished and sharpened by someone who knows what they are doing. As a couple of others have said, if you start with a junker saw with the idea of refurbishing it, you're probably not going to enjoy the experience. Cleaning up a saw from a cosmetic standpoint is relatively simple and rewarding. Not so with sharpening, especially a fine-toothed tenon saw. Unless you have used a correctly sharpened saw and know what to look for and how it is supposed to feel, sharpening a saw can be an exercise in frustration - like wandering in a wilderness without a map. I agree that saw sharpening is a skill woodworkers should learn, but I don't think it's a good idea to start your saw journey with the idea you're going to sharpen your own from the get-go.
My $.02
Hank
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