PM-V11 steel?

[AHill]

Besides the cost of the blade will you need to upgrade your sharpening setup to handle the much harder steel?  Just a thought.

Lonnie

PM-V11 is only just a hair harder than O1 or A2.  O1 blades by Lee Valley are Rc 58-60, A2 is Rc 60-61, and V11 is Rc 61-63.  Compared to O1, PM-V11 is only about 5% harder.  In fact, Japanese steel is very much harder than O1 or A2, but sharpens easier.  V11 is slightly easier to sharpen than A2 steel.  It's one of the features Lee Valley desired when they were creating the alloy.  A2 will sharpen effectively with an Arkansas oil stone, but it just takes longer because of the increased number of carbides in the steel matrix.  D2 takes a long time to sharpen with oil stones because it has even more carbides.  Some waterstones (e.g. Sigma and Norton) will cut quicker than oil stones because the sharpening media is harder (ceramic) than oil stones.  I could get real technical (I have a degree in metallurgical engineering), but it won't help the conversation.  I have PM-V11 chisels and a couple of PM-V11 blades.  They strop quite well, and I didn't find them any more difficult to sharpen than the A2 edge tools they replaced (using Norton then Sigma stones).

[Peter Tremblay]

Besides the cost of the blade will you need to upgrade your sharpening setup to handle the much harder steel?  Just a thought.

Lonnie

My sharpening setup consists of a 36 grit high speed grinding wheel and a hand cranked stropping wheel on an old fashioned hand cranked grinder with .5 micron diamond paste on the leather strop.

It's simple, fast, and there isn't a tool steel that exists (I do have some exotics in my shop) that I can't handle.

If a simple touch up on the stropping wheel won't bring back an edge then I reestablish the hollow of the bevel (this is done once every few months at most).  After the grinding wheel I go back to the stropping wheel and my edge is razor sharpe in seconds.

[blackhat]

Peter, in your position now, I would be considering a 120 gr wheel for your grinder or a dual gr diamond plate, maybe a 300/1000 range.

[Peter Tremblay]

Peter, in your position now, I would be considering a 120 gr wheel for your grinder or a dual gr diamond plate, maybe a 300/1000 range.

I have a full set of norton waterstones.

I just don't use them because this setup works so well and quickly.

[blackhat]

   I use a hard felt wheel and green compound on a hand grinder. The thought of tool steel and a 36 gr wheel does cause me to cringe a bit though.

[Peter Tremblay]

   I use a hard felt wheel and green compound on a hand grinder. The thought of tool steel and a 36 gr wheel does cause me to cringe a bit though.

A very light touch is all it takes.

The steel doesn't heat up quickly at all and it leaves a fairly uniform and clean grind.

[overland]

A very light touch is all it takes.

The steel doesn't heat up quickly at all and it leaves a fairly uniform and clean grind.

Where does one get a hard felt wheel that will fit on a hand grinder?

[blackhat]

Depending on your grinder, you may have to make a bushing. Hardwood is fine for a hand grinder, or drill out the centre of an undersized plastic bushing. I believe Peter uses a wood wheel with leather glued to the outside. An old leather belt glued to a wood disc would be just fine if you took a bit of care with the joint. I didn't even lap the ends on the one I made for the drill press. Not the end of the world at a couple hundred rpm.

[Peter Tremblay]

Depending on your grinder, you may have to make a bushing. Hardwood is fine for a hand grinder, or drill out the centre of an undersized plastic bushing. I believe Peter uses a wood wheel with leather glued to the outside. An old leather belt glued to a wood disc would be just fine if you took a bit of care with the joint. I didn't even lap the ends on the one I made for the drill press. Not the end of the world at a couple hundred rpm.

Yup, 1" MDF with a very hard piece of leather glued to the outside.

I have an old belt that I really want to glue to the circumference in order to be able to strop on the edge as well.

I'm going to do a rehab on my hand-cranked grinder at some point in the future and I'l be sure to share the process.

[Bibliophile 13]

Speaking from experience on the PM-V11 steel, I did have a few irons that I upgraded, and I'm glad I did.  Here's the story on each upgrade:

A2 to PM-V11.  I got a low-angle spokeshave from Lee Valley some years ago to work on wooden spoons.  It came standard with an A2 blade.  The blade held up pretty well, but resharpening it was kind of a pain because the blade is so small.  And for some reason it's not as easy for me to tell when the edge is getting dull as it is with my other tools.  I use the spokeshave mainly to make wooden spoons, which is one of the few money-making operations that goes on in my shop.  I found that I was having to resharpen more often than I'd like to.  Every time I have to stop to resharpen, I lose a little money.  So for me it was worth it to upgrade.  I went from having to resharpen once every 3 spoons to once about every 5 spoons, and sharpening the PM-V11 was a little faster for me. (I use mixed media: coarse diamond stone, fine Arkansas stone, and strop.)  I also found that, if I removed the PM-V11 blade to strop it every couple spoons, I could make the edge last even longer.  It's fast to just re-strop and doesn't cut into my production time as much.  I've found that A2 doesn't benefit as much from occasional stropping.  It stays sharp and stays sharp and then suddenly gets dull, and then has to be resharpened.  That just wasn't working for me.

O1 to PM-V11.  Similar to the story above.  The standard O1 blade in my Veritas spokeshave just wasn't staying sharp.  Every couple spoons, the blade was dull enough to have to go back up through the grits, often dull enough to have to re-grind.  I hated it. I felt like I was constantly resharpening that thing.  So I upgraded, and boy am I glad I did!  The new steel stays sharper much longer, and I don't have to re-grind as often.  I really put this spokeshave through its paces, though, so I wouldn't have bothered if I was just using the spokeshave occasionally.  But it's one of the workhorses in my shop, so it benefited a lot from the new steel.

Vintage Steel to PM-V11.  After my disappointing experience with the O1 blade in my spokeshave, I turned my attention to a couple of my handplanes.  My Sargent jointer had come with an aftermarket blade that just wouldn't hold an edge.  Probably just cheap steel.  So I was going to upgrade regardless, and after my experience with the spokeshave blades, I decided to spend the extra few bucks on the PM-V11.  The less I have to stop to resharpen while I'm jointing a batch of boards, the better my work turns out.  I liked the new blade in my jointer, so I eventually did the same thing with my Stanley 4 1/2.  It had the original blade (I think), but the back of it was all messed up, and the chipbreaker was not in great shape either.  So I took a deep breath and got the PM-V11 blade and chipbreaker combo for it.  I don't regret it.  Of all my tools with upgraded blades, I think my smoother probably benefits the least from the new steel.  I don't use it for long planing sessions, so it would be easy enough to pause to resharpen.  But since I was going to upgrade anyway, spending the extra $14 for the PM-V11 wasn't a big deal.


So that's my story.  I wouldn't recommend upgrading to everyone, but if there are one or two blades that you use all the time (like in a smoothing plane) and you find yourself resharpening too often, then definitely consider upgrading.