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09-09-2020, 01:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2020, 01:26 PM by mound.)
(09-09-2020, 11:23 AM)Cooler Wrote: From a logistical point of view, this would be a difficult counter to transport.
While it would make an interesting joint for woodworkers, I suspect a mitered corner would be preferred by most housewives. You will have to survey the intended recipient.
The guy making it (my buddy) is the intended recipient and he'll be making it in his home shop, so transport is a couple of guys carrying it about 20' :-)
Agreed with John's points.. Would the herringbone want to explode with expansion/contraction?
Cooler Wrote:All of which is to say that the joint will not be greatly stressed at any time in its life except for during the installation process
Correct. No overhang/seating.. Fully supported by the underlying cabinet carcasses.
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(09-09-2020, 01:25 PM)mound Wrote: The guy making it (my buddy) is the intended recipient and he'll be making it in his home shop, so transport is a couple of guys carrying it about 20' :-)
Agreed with John's points.. Would the herringbone want to explode with expansion/contraction?
Correct. No overhang/seating.. Fully supported by the underlying cabinet carcasses.
Mound, The question of seasonal movement (expansion/contraction) has nothing to do with the underlying cabinet. It has to do with how much the solid wood top will expand or contract cross grain with seasonal changes in temperature and humidity. Absent modern climate control in most homes, that joint, whether miter or herringbone, would likely self destruct in time due to certain expansion and contraction. So long as the typical heating/cooling is functioning, It may work OK. But, maybe not. I would not be surprised to find cracking somewhere at sometime in the future.
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And, what I caught, counter tops are 25" in depth, not 24". The cabinets are 24".
Just a note....
Interesting layout that Dave posted. I like that
Steve
Mo.
I miss the days of using my dinghy with a girlfriend too. Zack Butler-4/18/24
The Revos apparently are designed to clamp railroad ties and pull together horrifically prepared joints
WaterlooMark 02/9/2020
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09-10-2020, 05:22 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020, 05:23 AM by Duane N.)
I finished my Walnut counter tops about 6 months ago and considered a herringbone pattern at the miter but thought about what's involved getting everything perfect and considering end grain glue joints I opted for just a simple 45 degree miter. My 2 counter tops are 10' long and almost 11' long, 1 3/4" thick and 25" deep. I built each top then mitered the corners (it took me about a week to work up the courage making the cuts) then used a straight edge with a 2" flush trim router bit to make the 45's perfect. I used counter top bolts and biscuits to hold and align everything. So far no issues with the miter or counter top 5" wide boards separating.
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Duane, nice work, and it would have taken me more than a week to get the courage to make those cuts.
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(09-10-2020, 05:22 AM)Duane N Wrote: I finished my Walnut counter tops about 6 months ago and considered a herringbone pattern at the miter but thought about what's involved getting everything perfect and considering end grain glue joints I opted for just a simple 45 degree miter. My 2 counter tops are 10' long and almost 11' long, 1 3/4" thick and 25" deep. I built each top then mitered the corners (it took me about a week to work up the courage making the cuts) then used a straight edge with a 2" flush trim router bit to make the 45's perfect. I used counter top bolts and biscuits to hold and align everything. So far no issues with the miter or counter top 5" wide boards separating.
beautiful!
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Duane, That looks great! Good job. Couple of questions: Did you finish both sides equally? How many bolts did you use? Would you let us know and show us some photos if issues with it ever occur?
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09-10-2020, 11:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020, 11:30 AM by jppierson.)
Wouldn't each short segment of the herringbone expand/contract thus creating a gap at each end grain joint? You can force the overall total of expansion/contraction by pinning but what happens at each subjoint?
This site has a chart with common species and has an example of 24" wide panel with a 3% variation in humidity over a year. The quarter sawn pine in the example would have a total change of 1/8" or .125". With six 4" boards to make up the panel the potential gap at each sub-joint could be .021"+/- or about 5 sheets of paper.
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/mater...expansion/
Train to be miserable...
that way when the real misery starts you won't notice.
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(09-10-2020, 05:22 AM)Duane N Wrote: I finished my Walnut counter tops about 6 months ago and considered a herringbone pattern at the miter but thought about what's involved getting everything perfect and considering end grain glue joints I opted for just a simple 45 degree miter. My 2 counter tops are 10' long and almost 11' long, 1 3/4" thick and 25" deep. I built each top then mitered the corners (it took me about a week to work up the courage making the cuts) then used a straight edge with a 2" flush trim router bit to make the 45's perfect. I used counter top bolts and biscuits to hold and align everything. So far no issues with the miter or counter top 5" wide boards separating.
Those are beautiful. I hope you have really good RH control in your house. If the RH changes the typical 35 - 40% in the Winter to 65 - 70% in the Summer, like we get indoors here in NYS those joints will never survive. You're looking at something like 3/8" dimensional change. What now are 45 deg angles no longer will be when that happens and the joints will come apart. You are going to need the RH to stay within maybe a 10% band to stand a chance. You can easily do the math from Hoadley's book to see. Good luck. If you don't have a humidifier in your house yet you are going to need one this winter.
John l
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09-10-2020, 03:46 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2020, 03:47 PM by Duane N.)
(09-10-2020, 09:39 AM)Willyou Wrote: Duane, That looks great! Good job. Couple of questions: Did you finish both sides equally? How many bolts did you use? Would you let us know and show us some photos if issues with it ever occur?
Both sides were finished with the same finish and the same amount of coats. I used 5 bolts....one at the center of each 5" piece of Walnut. I'll be quite upset if I have issues but I will update my kitchen build post if that happens.
(09-10-2020, 12:58 PM)jteneyck Wrote: Those are beautiful. I hope you have really good RH control in your house. If the RH changes the typical 35 - 40% in the Winter to 65 - 70% in the Summer, like we get indoors here in NYS those joints will never survive. You're looking at something like 3/8" dimensional change. What now are 45 deg angles no longer will be when that happens and the joints will come apart. You are going to need the RH to stay within maybe a 10% band to stand a chance. You can easily do the math from Hoadley's book to see. Good luck. If you don't have a humidifier in your house yet you are going to need one this winter.
John l
I do commercial heating and A/C for a living and I run a dehumidifier in the summer and a humidifier in the winter. My RH stays at around 50%-54% year round in my home. It'll only change if something breaks but it won't be broken for long.
