Domino and Biscuit Joiner

[Handplanesandmore]

I make a lot of things from large casework to small boxes, but the "cost per project" of a Domino, considering the tool(s), bits, and dominos,  is not something I can cost-justify.  Particularly at my age.  I have used a biscuit joiner extensively and never had a failure.  Well, except for the time I forgot to change from #20 and put a slot in the top of my workbench.

Cost-justify? I wonder how many of us hobbyists can really justify all our projects based on costs.

But the discussion on costs is actually irrelevant here. The OP isn't considering buying a domino joiner vs a biscuit joiner, or which one to keep between the two. Based on cost alone (which however isn't necessarily the same as cost effectiveness depending on what one uses it for), he might not even have purchased the domino joiner to start with.

Simon

[paulWoodworker]

I accidently broke my PC biscuit joiner about 2 weeks ago, got one of ebay, very good condition for about 100.
I have a domino too, but as someone else said, the cost of biscuits is much less than dominos.
Also, there's time when the little extra play in a biscuit joint is useful.
A pack of 510 dominos, 5 mm in size, costs 105.
It's just not ecominical to use dominos if you are using them to line up glueups, compared to a biscuit cutter.

Also, lamello has some really cool things you can use with any biscuit jointer.
Like knockdown connectors (you need to cut a slot, raise the biscuit joiner with a 4 mm shim and then cut another slot, and obviously it's desirable to closely center the double slot).. I found these, after I found out the "entry price" for the festool knockdown fasteners is about $300.. https://www.csaw.com/lamello/lamello-sys.../clamex-s/

Also, I have not tried these, but these things supposedly hold the joint in place until the glue dries, which is helpful when you have something difficult to clamp
https://www.csaw.com/lamello/lamello-sys...mello-k20/

I would keep them both if I was you. Just ask yourself before you grab the domino, "Can I use a biscuit cutter for the same thing?"
The biscuit jointer has saved me hundreds of dollars, that's why I replaced it when it broke.

[Cabinet Monkey]

But the discussion on costs is actually irrelevant here.

That is rarely , if ever,  true.  And certainly doesn’t seem to be in this case either.  If cost/ money weren’t relevant,     Lincmerc would not be looking to sell the biscuit cutter because the market is hot.  He’d keep it or donate it.

Honestly the domino joiner is underpriced because there are no comparable alternatives

Spoken like a true fanboy. 

While no exact alternatives exist like with a biscuit joiner , Mafell’s doweler and lamello’s zeta offer very similar construction alternatives.  There’s also dedicated mortisers aplenty  , both horizontal an vertical that have been available for decades that could be used with loose tenons.  Coulda had a JDS multirouter too.

[Handplanesandmore]

Yes, rarely true......but it's true here. Please don't tell but show me where I'm wrong about costs here. Specifically where does the OP mention about keeping or not keeping the biscuit joiner primarily for money reasons? He is just expecting a fair price! I'm not good like you at reading people's minds. If money were indeed the motivation, he should sell the domino joiner. End of discussion (on this point).

Fanboy? Guilty as charged if you mean someone who appreciates the value and functionality of a well-designed or quality tool. For that matter, I'm also a fanboy of L-N, veritas etc. As I said, I can't really cost-justify any of them as an amateur as my work doesn't generate any revenue. But boy, I mean, fanboy, I enjoy producing fine work with fine tools.

If you know someone who has used the domino joiner a lot (not once in a blue moon) and show you its versatility  and potentials, you may understand why it's a game changer for many. Of course, it isn't a machine for everyone.

Simon

[Tapper]

This reminds me of the Sawstop threads around here.

Doug

[fredhargis]

This reminds me of the Sawstop threads around here.

Doug

Yep..and he who gets the last word wins!

[Handplanesandmore]

Doug, I think it's different. People know what sawstop can do even though they strongly object to it out of whatever reasons (some because of the inventor).

But not a lot including some owners realize the full power and potentials of the domino joiner. They see it as an alternative to dowels or in this case, biscuits. When they see it that way, of course, the domino will never be a game changer for them or be something they'll consider given its price point.

I should also add that the domino has a deeper learning curve than people realize.


Hahaha....sounds like we're trying to convince the OP to keep or not to keep his domino joiner rather than the biscuit joiner!!!

Simon

[Tapper]

This thread points up the differences in people and how they prefer to work, IMO. There are three distinct categories:

1) Those who have only a biscuit joiner and use other methods for M&T joints (count me in)
2) Those who have gone to the Domino and think it's the "bee's knees", and
3) Those who have and use both

Just like Sawstop, those in #2 seem entrenched.

Unlike Sawstop there is no revolutionary safety device involved, but a new way to cut mortices for loose tenons. BTW, does anyone compete with Festool for the Domino tenon market, i.e. the actual tenon you are now forced to buy from them?
 
Doug

[Lumber Yard®]

The Domino is in a class by itself in my shop. I hung onto a plate jointer for a few years after getting the Domino but it NEVER got pulled out again. For me, the Domino replaced the plate jointer and several other tools. I also have owned MANY of the M&T jigs and set-ups and the Domino is just faster and more convenient to use in most cases. There are other tools that might add some level of functionality but the overall winner for 95% of the work I do in my shop is the Domino. One of the biggest advantages of the Domino is that the tool can go to the material vs. the other way around.  People can hate it all they want but for me, it's just a more efficient tool to use for the work I do. 
Whether it is worth it is totally a different subject and might be based on the individual and their specific use.

The Sawstop is a POS... there I did it... let's roll. LOL

[Handplanesandmore]

BTW, does anyone compete with Festool for the Domino tenon market, i.e. the actual tenon you are now forced to buy from them?
 
Doug

I'm not aware of any non-festool tenons, though I know you can get festool tenons much cheaper on amazon. I prefer to get them from my local merchants without waiting.

If you buy bulk, the common 6mm tenons are under $0.1 each. For a typical reasonable size project (including panel glueup & joinery), we use 50 to 150 of them. That's the cost of a couple cups of Starbucks. Compared to lumber and labor/time, the consumables are inconsequential.

Smaller projects may even cost well under $5 in tenon cost. That's why I don't waste my time making tenons myself (I know some do --- which is straightforward using just a tablesaw and a router/v bit/round over bit and scrap wood) and claim huge savings).

Simon