Water based dye and stain

[Jack01]

I am refinishing a old white oak round kitchen table
I removed all the old finish to barewood, then went through sanding process 100 grit to 180
Applied General Finish water based Dye (Merlot) 
Let it dry about a day
Then applied Old masters wiping stain in "Rich Mahogany" ( this is oil based stain)
I waited for couple of days and this did not dry, waited another 3 more days and it was same
I surprised that it did not dry in 5 days all that time it was in around 70F degrees

Any thoughts what was wrong?

At this time I have removed all the coating and the top is back to the barewood.
Now I am thinking about applying same General Finish water base dye  but once it is dry use a water based stain.

Any feedback will be appreciated.

[jteneyck]

My guess is you didn't wipe off the wiping stain well enough and it never dried.  

I would be hesitant to use a waterbased stain over a waterbased dye as it is likely to pull up some of the dye.  A spray/no wipe stain would be the exception to that statement.  

I would make up a test piece, or use the bottom of your table top, and redo the waterbased dye and then the oil based stain, but wipe it off really well.  If you are using a new can of stain it should dry fine.  If you're not using a new can of stain; well, you should be.  You often can speed up the drying by setting a fan across the room and having some gentle airflow across the piece.  If it dries but is not dark enough apply another coat of stain, again wiping it really well.  Another option to get a deeper hue in one coat is to only sand to 150 grit.  That's far enough on oak.  

Good luck.

John

[Jack01]

My guess is you didn't wipe off the wiping stain well enough and it never dried.  

I would be hesitant to use a waterbased stain over a waterbased dye as it is likely to pull up some of the dye.  A spray/no wipe stain would be the exception to that statement.  

I would make up a test piece, or use the bottom of your table top, and redo the waterbased dye and then the oil based stain, but wipe it off really well.  If you are using a new can of stain it should dry fine.  If you're not using a new can of stain; well, you should be.  You often can speed up the drying by setting a fan across the room and having some gentle airflow across the piece.  If it dries but is not dark enough apply another coat of stain, again wiping it really well.  Another option to get a deeper hue in one coat is to only sand to 150 grit.  That's far enough on oak.  

Good luck.

John

John
Thanks for the info
I have applied GF water based dye this morning now waiting to dry.
I will get new Oil Based stain. Should I get wiping stain or penetrating stain?
Also do I need to apply a sealer as Shellac before applying the water based stain?

[jteneyck]

John
Thanks for the info
I have applied GF water based dye this morning now waiting to dry.
I will get new Oil Based stain. Should I get wiping stain or penetrating stain?
Also do I need to apply a sealer as Shellac before applying the water based stain?

If you use an OB stain you don't need to apply shellac.  I don't think I know the difference between a wiping stain and a penetrating stain.  The only stains I know are spray-no-wipe, wiping stain, and gel stain, so I can't offer any help on that question.  

If you want to use a WB stain I recommend you try a test panel (always a good idea) to find out whether you can apply it after the dye is dry w/o problems.  If it lifts the dye up and makes a muddy mess then you will have to apply a sealer, like dewaxed shellac, first.  However, shellac will lift some dyes like Transtint.  I get around that problem by spraying the shellac.  Rattle can shellac works fine if you don't have spray equipment.  Shellac will reduce the absorption of the stain, no matter what kind you use, however.  

John

[zaret]

John
Thanks for the info
I have applied GF water based dye this morning now waiting to dry.
I will get new Oil Based stain. Should I get wiping stain or penetrating stain?
Also do I need to apply a sealer as Shellac before applying the water based stain?

you don't need shellac.  i've done a lot of work with this combo.... i think your issue is the Old Masters.  i've had a lot of issues with Old Masters oil-based stains.  stick with GF.  you can do GF oil (gel or regular) over GF dye stain, no issues.  i did a cherry kitchen about a year ago with exactly this formula.  a day or so dry time for the dye, then oil-based gel stain over it.  it's a good look.

WB dye under oil stain

the GF dye stain has a little bit of binder in it, so once it dries, it shouldn't lift.

--- dz

[Cooler]

Oak has open pores and if you don't wipe it with a lot of pressure the stain will reside in the pores.  It takes a long time to dry. 

I don't have experience with this condition, but I have applied clear over oil-based that was not fully dried and it looked terrible.

I think I would try removing the excess in the pores using mineral spirits on a rag and wiping thoroughly.  Test first.  I have not done this.