saw making

[wmickley]

Say something nice for a change, Warren. Enough with the constant criticism. It's tiring.

Regards from Perth

Der

A lawyer tried to deceive me by pretending to answer my comment. Am I not supposed to point this out?

[Pedder]

So you also figured out that beech was the best wood for saw handles?? Did you tell anybody?

Hi Warren,

if you want me to make you a saw in beech, just shoot me a pm.


I make saws to make the sawyer happy. If one wants beech, no problem,
if one wants highly figured KMB or Gidgee, no problem either.

In my books Beech is not "the" best wood for saw handels, but it is one suitable woods.

Timberwolf linked to the bench talk 101 video on Youtube from Shane Skelton in one of his posts.
Watch the long period Shane talks about wood movement and why he takes this extra super effort to make the Mallard range saws.
In that categorie of woodmovement uncooked beech ist not the best wood.
Pete Tarans curly maple is better. 100 Year old Rosewood and african blackwood are perfect
Later are a bit on the heavy side.

In my books the karelian masur birch ist pretty clos to perfect.
Stable (E.A. Berg made chisels from KMB)
Light.
A joy to work. (that is most important for me.)
Loveley to hold.
But crazy expensive.
And hard to get.

Ebony is so cool. But the stock I have, needs a long time to get staddy.

Cheers
Pedder

[Derek Cohen]

A lawyer tried to deceive me by pretending to answer my comment. Am I not supposed to point this out?

Warren, that’s what lawyers do. Why the surprise? 


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Philip1231]

A lawyer tried to deceive me by pretending to answer my comment. Am I not supposed to point this out?

I don't think anyone was trying to deceive you, least of all Pedder (is there another lawyer involved in this discussion?). As is quite often said, we are all entitled to our own opinions, realizing that not everyone wants to hear what our opinions are on any given topic on any given day. I will say it again, sometimes we fail to realize how we may come across to others on these forums: sometimes what a poster views as a casual comment can be taken as unjustifiably critical or even somewhat aggressive. Thoughts to ponder.

[Timberwolf]

I don't think anyone was trying to deceive you, least of all Pedder (is there another lawyer involved in this discussion?). As is quite often said, we are all entitled to our own opinions, realizing that not everyone wants to hear what our opinions are on any given topic on any given day. I will say it again, sometimes we fail to realize how we may come across to others on these forums: sometimes what a poster views as a casual comment can be taken as unjustifiably critical or even somewhat aggressive. Thoughts to ponder.

.......................
And Disston chose Apple wood for the great majority of his
better" saws. They could have used whatever wood they wanted but I think they knew a thing or two about the subject and chose woods like beech for their "second tier" saws. Not to say Beech isn't a good wood for handles and other WW tools, but many types of wood are good. I happen to like curly maple, but with me, it's not about the wood OR the steel, it's how well the finished saw performs...."beauty" is just frosting on the cake.



Words mean something..

[Tapper]

I'm guessing that I am the least experienced and the least knowledgeable here about this subject. There are obviously several in this thread who are at the expert level. At this level of dovetail expertise there seems to be quite a bit of envy as well as debate about what the most important features are, i.e. wood species, handle hang, tooth count, weight, etc. etc., in a dovetail saw.

As an old salesman and manager of operations and people, the one saying that is NEVER not true is that "people buy from people they like" - it's ALWAYS true. Klaus Pedder and I have exchanged e-mails and we're talking about a saw. For a barrister (again I'm married to the best one I know
) he seems to be a nice person as well as an excellent craftsman. I still have a ways to go knowledge-wise about dovetail saws. Having been mostly a machine guy this is all somewhat new to me but fascinating all the same. Thanks to all for the information provided.

And while I can be as confrontational as is necessary, my nature is to achieve the best outcome for all. Let's play nice - I don't think Pedder ever intended to step on anyone's toes.

Doug

[iclark]

I'm guessing that I am the least experienced and the least knowledgeable here about this subject.

I _really_ wish that I had kept a copy of the ROFL gif from the Zone. !

I can guarantee that you are not the least experienced in this thread. I am here. I expect that there are a bunch of lurkers here also drooling over the tool pron and learning.

Also (putting on my greenie hat), my thanks to those making the effort to keep this thread friendly.

[adamcherubini]

Beech is special. Its mechanical properties aren't easy to see why.  But its very strong, with a very high modulus, and yet is impact resistant.  Its also highly isotropic. Like...more than other woods in its strength class. There's a reason why the old timers chose it. (note- exotic woods weren't really an option for pro saw makers).

I forget the story about Disston's apple.  I grew up 20 minutes from the factory. I think it had to do with cider (the alcoholic kind) because apple that big doesn't just grow around here. They may have gotten it cheap somehow. Maybe someone knows the story and will tell it. Feel like it had to do with prohibition? Apple is nice to carve and also pretty isotropic, but not strong or impact resistant like beech. Beech has other "special" properties not obvious in the literature (Forest Products Laboratory "Wood Handbook" (its downloadable). But those properties have more to do with planes than saws in my opinion.

I'm not wise, but I understand the frustration floating through these posts and if anyone wants to PM me, I'll try to explain. We're all doing the best we can. Otherwise, I think the take away message here is: woodworking hand tools are deceptively complicated.  We are all learning the craft including the toolmakers. I think its a good idea to start with traditional, and when that is mastered move on.  But okay to innovate or express yourself. Whatever. Regardless its good to compare old and new and talk about it.  Everybody, including and especially me learns something.

Full disclosure- and this may need to be a new thread - I don't think Disston saws were ever really great.  They were mass produced like Stanley planes (also not amazing tools). I never produced a saw that I thought was better than a Disston.  But there were things about my saws that were FAR better (and I'm not talking back saws). I wish I could taper spring steel like Disston could. I think the back saws getting made today are head and shoulders above where we were 100yrs ago. You guys are really leaning on 200yr old DT saw designs.  Disston's back saws kinda sucked.

[CStan]

As the cherubic one has said -- mass manufactured and way overrated. Certainly adequate, but hardly worth all the oohing and aahing.

Spear and Jackson, still in business but I suppose well past their heyday, still make their re-sharpenable saws with beech handles.

I like their old saws with "unbreakable" handles where they drill a hole through and put a piece of steel in the handle. I like the extra weight there for some reason, seems to balance out the saw.

[CStan]

A lawyer tried to deceive me by pretending to answer my comment. Am I not supposed to point this out?

Everybody hates lawyers until you need one.