electrical question - 200amp subpanel from 200amp main?

[mound]

Assuming full household load calculations are done for all attached devices and expected current and future loads, is there any reason I can't "extend" my 200amp main panel to a 200amp sub-panel (about 40' away in the basement).

The existing cutler hammer panel from the 60's is in a tight spot in the basement and a bit of a rats nest.  Wiring in any new GF/AFCI breakers would be difficult. I'd prefer to avoid even working in it. Given my large kitchen remodel and other cleanup plans, having a new, more modern plug-on-neutral style panel in a more accessible area will greatly simplify running home runs, using dual function GF/AFCI breakers everywhere required (which is almost everywhere these days) and keeping everything accessible, neat and clean and well labeled. 

I'd anticipate leaving the large mechanicals (AC/Furnace/Water Heater) and the bulk of the existing rooms in place at the original panel, but all new and modified work would be routed to the new panel.  I could use a sub-feed lug kit and #2 copper feeders to be a "true" 200amps, or if necessary a 150amp breaker and make it a 150amp sub-panel. Of course I'd ensure ground and neutral weren't bonded.


thoughts?

[T.Hooks]

It would behoove you to replace the old panel.

How hard would it be to run new service wire from your existing meter base/disconnect to your new panel location? Turn that into your Main Panel and feed the old location with it, as you say, for your larger loads? Many will say this will be backwards in economics, but get the feeling economy isn't the primary goal here.

Could you re-use your existing service wire and feed the new Main Panel?

[mound]

It would behoove you to replace the old panel.

How hard would it be to run new service wire from your existing meter base/disconnect to your new panel location?  Turn that into your Main Panel and feed the old location with it, as you say, for your larger loads?  Many will say this will be backwards in economics, but get the feeling economy isn't the primary goal here.

Could you re-use your existing service wire and feed the new Main Panel?

Wow, that's an excellent idea that hadn't occurred to me.  Although as I say that and think again, why would that behoove me other than being cleaner? (that is enough IMHO).. It's actually a straight shot (~20') along an unfinished basement ceiling. 

I know a licensed electrician (who also knows me and my DIY ways!) who actually just replaced my meter base last month when it lost a leg.. I could see him doing that work very quickly. I'm gonna get his thoughts (duh)..  

While I do like to be frugal and spend wisely, I agree most will say "why spend that money?"

It is more than economics for me in this case, your instinct was correct.  There's a bigger picture with this "make it modern and clean" - I've decided to invite the town in and get permits and inspections for the kitchen remodel I'm doing (which I've avoided but it really should have) and I want a clean, easy to inspect and understand "new build" type inspection to happen where I can describe exactly what I did and why, and can repair and expand upon it easily down the road. 

Yet having written all that, I stop and think "what really changes if this is first in line or second?" What were you referring to when you said it might behoove me to switch them around?

[mound]

It would behoove you to replace the old panel.

How hard would it be to run new service wire from your existing meter base/disconnect to your new panel location?  Turn that into your Main Panel and feed the old location with it, as you say, for your larger loads?  Many will say this will be backwards in economics, but get the feeling economy isn't the primary goal here.

Could you re-use your existing service wire and feed the new Main Panel?

I think the more difficult work would be turning the original main panel into a sub-panel.. ground and neutral are bonded everywhere, including lugs bolted to the chassis. the whole thing would need to be taken apart and wired back up, which of course would make sense to replace the whole thing at that point.  I don't know that's in the cards today!

[Roly]

Wow, that's an excellent idea that hadn't occurred to me.  Although as I say that and think again, why would that behoove me other than being cleaner? (that is enough IMHO).. It's actually a straight shot (~20') along an unfinished basement ceiling. 

I know a licensed electrician (who also knows me and my DIY ways!) who actually just replaced my meter base last month when it lost a leg.. I could see him doing that work very quickly. I'm gonna get his thoughts (duh)..  

While I do like to be frugal and spend wisely, I agree most will say "why spend that money?"

It is more than economics for me in this case, your instinct was correct.  There's a bigger picture with this "make it modern and clean" - I've decided to invite the town in and get permits and inspections for the kitchen remodel I'm doing (which I've avoided but it really should have) and I want a clean, easy to inspect and understand "new build" type inspection to happen where I can describe exactly what I did and why, and can repair and expand upon it easily down the road. 

Yet having written all that, I stop and think "what really changes if this is first in line or second?" What were you referring to when you said it might behoove me to switch them around?

It is not #2 cu for a 200 amp panel, it is 2/0 cu wire  for a 200 amp breaker.  Big difference.  Also going inside for 20' or so will probably require a breaker outside if you are  tying in by the meter base and then feeding both panels.
Remember you will not have a 400 amp service unless you up grade everything.     Better run this by your electrician because some upgrades can require everything brought up to current code.   Roly

[mound]

It is not #2 cu for a 200 amp panel, it is 2/0 cu wire  for a 200 amp breaker.  Big difference.  Also going inside for 20' or so will probably require a breaker outside if you are  tying in by the meter base and then feeding both panels.
Remember you will not have a 400 amp service unless you up grade everything.     Better run this by your electrician because some upgrades can require everything brought up to current code.   Roly

Thanks Roly, understood. To be clear, I'm not trying to achieve 400amp service, that'd require the utility and a new meter and I don't need that much capacity. Really just trying to "extend" the 200amp panel such that I have a clean space in which I can consolidate things with modern af/gfci breakers as needed. Removing things from the original, never adding.

[blackhat]

Have you sourced a 200 amp breaker for your existing panel?

[Roly]

Have you sourced a 200 amp breaker for your existing panel?

Good question Blackhat.    Very doubtful for a normal breaker box.  Roly

[mound]

Good question Blackhat.    Very doubtful for a normal breaker box.  Roly

I don't think an actual breaker would be needed if this subpanel were the same rating as the main, right?  A local supply house does have a 225amp subfeed lug box  (he's looking into if a 200amp version exists) which I think could be used. If the subpanel were 200amps, it'd be protected by the 200amp breaker in the main, no?

no word back from my electrician

[Roly]

I don't think an actual breaker would be needed if this subpanel were the same rating as the main, right?  A local supply house does have a 225amp subfeed lug box  (he's looking into if a 200amp version exists) which I think could be used. If the subpanel were 200amps, it'd be protected by the 200amp breaker in the main, no?

no word back from my electrician

How are you connecting the sub panel to the main panel ? Is it rated for doing this ?  Does it have lug provisions on the main bus in the original panel ?  If it has aluminum bus in it I would not do it. A few questions for you electrican.  Roly