Festool Kapex or Makita LS1019L?

[fall]

What one should I buy? 

The Festool Kapex KS 120 Sliding Miter Saw or Makita LS1019L .

I have narrowed it down to one of these two miter saws. I have watched all the U-Tube reviews I can possibly handle.
  
 For those folks that actually have them, are you happy with your purchases, would you buy it again, or do you have any comments regarding your units that could help in my decision.
 I know the Kapex had issues with the motors, but I believe that has been addressed with the newer models.  One other complaint I was reading about was that the switch to start the saw was kind of a pain to use and that some have modified the switches to be easier to use. ( Not sure if there is a video out there on how to do it) but if there are any other issues with the Kapex please advise. Also do you have to buy Festool only blades for the saw or do 3rd party vendors sell good blades for the Kapex arbor size?
 I have also reviewed the Makita, it seems to have a lot of positive features also, but for about ½ the price. But I don’t want to sacrifice on quality of cuts and durability if that may be the case?
 I guess I can live with the price of the Kapex, even though its way over priced if it’s that much better than the Makita, but why spend the money if there’s not that much difference .
 
Any advice would be appreciated.  
 
Thanks

[woodworker501]

I had the Kapex and was not impressed with it. Although it is light in the weight department the laser is pretty useless outdoors and sometimes indoors depending on the lighting. The position of the handle took some getting used to.  I sold the Kapex and purchased a Makita GSL04M1 which is their cordless 12" that has a LED light. Nothing in my opinion works better a LED light to see the cut line.
I also had a Bosch GCM12SD which had too much play with the arm pulled out.

[Handplanesandmore]

Do you bevel pieces? No miter saws out there can compare to the kapex's bevel control. Do you need very good dust collection? No miter saws out there beat the kapex. Do you use the hold down a lot? No miter saws out there have a better clamp than the kapex's.

If your answers are no, don't waste your money, and don't get a kapex.

Yes, spot lighting/shadow lines are better than laser lines, but neither are good enough if critical precision cuts are needed. I have no issues with the laser, but I use it for rough cuts such as trimming ends square. (Festool is releasing a cordless miter saw with the spot lighting feature, but the cut depth is 60, not 120.) About the switch? Zero issues. Some also don't like the handle. Yes, you can get third party blades. Festool sells blades for metal, laminate, plastic etc. If you have a dealership nearby, try it and have a feel. Many people who want it but don't have it due to budget considerations.

Overpriced? Some people think every festool tool is overpriced because they can always find a cheaper alternative. I use my festool stuff to death (exaggeration), so it's good investment for me.

Simon

[fall]

Simon, thanks for the thoughts. In review I am going with the Kapex. I guess I cant go wrong with it as it seems it has a lot of positives with what's on the market these days, even at the higher price.

[JohnnyEgo]

I am absolutely thrilled to death with my Kapex three years in. Zero regrets. However I kept my Dewalt for construction lumber purposes.

My Kapex lives mostly against my shop wall, and doesn't go anywhere, so neither the plusses of its portability or the minuses of its fragility come into play. It keeps itself as clean as one could expect of a compound miter; dust still gets everywhere, but in a smaller radius and there is less of it. It is as accurate and consistent as I could ask for.

[R Clark]

I'm not in the market for one, not yet, I suppose.  One question I always have about a compound miter saw, particularly the sliders, is the repeatability and accuracy of settings.

For example:  Let's say I've got the Kapex "dialed into" a 90 degree crosscut.  It's making beautiful square cuts.  I move it to 45 for a few cuts, and then back to 90.  Without having to realign everything and get out machinist squares to check, how good are those cuts?  Are the 45s of picture frame miter quality? Is the 90 after this moving around ready for fine woodworking square cuts again?

Would you, do you, just set it and trust it?  How often do you feel like you need to check it?

Substitute any brand in place of Kapex...Makita...Dewalt...Hitachi...

I have a compound miter, a Craftsman that I inherited from my father.  It's not even what I would consider satisfactory for an amateur building a patio deck.

[Handplanesandmore]

The kapex and others have detents, and calibration will determine how accurately a saw can cut. Cutting bevels is not the same as detents are not available. But table saws have no bevel detents either.

Simon

[JohnnyEgo]

The Kapex is about as accurate as a compound miter is going to get. The lockup mechanism is tight at the detents and has no play I can detect, and the friction lock-up at the non-detent positions is about as good as I have encountered. Blade deflection is still always a possibility, and the sliding mechanism also introduces the possibility for some play, particularly at full extension for wide pieces. But in my experience, how straight and true my stock is has a lot more effect on the accuracy of my miters than any movement or slop in the system on the Kapex.

I have owned four compound miters in my life, starting with a Dewalt 716 single bevel non-slider, a Craftsman 12" of ill repute, a Milwaukee slider, and now the Kapex. The Kapex cost more than the other three combined, and I definitely feel it is more delicate than most. But I use it for far finer work than I ever considered on the others. My Milwaukee was a heavy beast that took up a lot of real estate on the bench in storage. It scattered dust to the four corners of the earth, and it was mostly relegated to the purposes of breaking down rough lumber. As a consequence, it didn't get used very often, and I did most of my fine work on a cross cut sled on the tablesaw. The Kapex changed that equation, and now the cross cut sled is mostly reserved for smaller pieces that are ill-suited to the Kapex for safety reasons.


Ray asked if it makes picture frame quality miters, and the answer is 'sometimes', with the most common caveat being that your stock is actually straight and true along the whole reference edge against the fence. It's also not the angle I worry about so much as the potential for tear-out at the unsupported edge of the cut line, and for that reason I will often cut slightly wide and hand-plane to final width. In this approach, I prefer to use child-labor power over electrical power for the critical miter.


In repetition, the Kapex is about as accurate and consistent as a compound miter is going to be. My experience has been that it's output depends more on the quality of the input materials and the skill of the user than the inherent limitations of the machine. It is expensive for what it is, and it is not the right tool for every job, but if mine broke tomorrow I'd buy another one. After I was done swearing.

[Handplanesandmore]

But the delicate machine is only half the equation. The operator holds the difference between Supreme cuts and average or below average results. Too fast the pushing, too much side force and others will affect the quality of cuts.

Simon

[EdL]

I gave up on "sliders" long ago when doing long cuts that needed to be spot on, to much deflection.
After I restored a Delta Super 900 RAS, its become my go to saw. Yes, set-up time is increased but so is accuracy. With the turret arm design it'll cut angles a SCMS or traditional RAS can't even dream about.
It's not for people that need portability....mine is on a wheeled cabinet, I move it out in the open so adjustments are easier.

Ed