Help with hand planes

[adamcherubini]

At the end of the day, I think the overwhelming percentage of a plane or chisel’s performance lies in how well you sharpen it. This makes hand tools fundamentally unlike the choice between a WEN track saw and a Festool track saw. I’m guessing there’s very little you can do to either to improve their performance a tiny bit.

So the whole buy once, cry once, isn’t really a good fit for an item that is so heavily influenced by technique.

In terms of the best planes for power tool users, my sense is that the chief purpose of several planes is straightening, flattening roughing, etc, which power tool users fundamentally don’t need. Because of this, they can meet their goals and expectations with virtually any hand plane. To a power tool user, every plane is essentially a smoother.

Folks who work wood by hand really need several basic planes for fundamental tasks, smoothing being the least important. The recommendations people give power tool users, I think, are not really for people who want to build stuff with hand tools. For hand tool people, I’d recommend a #5 & #7 or #8 then some kind of rabbet. I typically recommend the longest plane as the first. I also greatly prefer wooden planes.

The difference in perspective between people who build with machines, versus people who use some hand tools, versus people who build entirely by hand (extremely few) has produced a ton of arguments over the years, as all of them expect there is one right answer and their clearly just isn’t.

So: all said, I’d get a used #4 or #5, any make, and focus on learning to sharpen.

[Admiral]

So: all said, I’d get a used #4 or #5, any make, and focus on learning to sharpen.

Adam, first, I totally respect your opinions and totally agree with your sharpening focus, but differ as to this latter point.  "Any make" I can't agree with, as there are some real turds out there, notably "Handyman" Stanleys, late model (70s-80s) craftsman, Great Neck, certain handyman-like Millers Falls planes - the list could go on.  My issue with a lot of these are the mating surfaces between the frog and body, some of which are not even machined and paint covered.  Hard to do good work even with a sharp iron.  So one should be a bit selective in my view, sticking with T19 and prior Stanleys, MF planes with the articulated lever cap, Union, Sargent VBM, early Craftsman (pre- 40s), etc.  I'm sure I'm missing some worthy makers here but I think you get my point.

[adamcherubini]

Adam, first, I totally respect your opinions and totally agree with your sharpening focus, but differ as to this latter point.  "Any make" I can't agree with, as there are some real turds out there, notably "Handyman" Stanleys, late model (70s-80s) craftsman, Great Neck, certain handyman-like Millers Falls planes - the list could go on.  My issue with a lot of these are the mating surfaces between the frog and body, some of which are not even machined and paint covered.  Hard to do good work even with a sharp iron.  So one should be a bit selective in my view, sticking with T19 and prior Stanleys, MF planes with the articulated lever cap, Union, Sargent VBM, early Craftsman (pre- 40s), etc.  I'm sure I'm missing some worthy makers here but I think you get my point.

I do and I agree. I think I was thinking more LN vs LV. I don’t think one can go too wrong with either.

[Ray Newman]

"At the end of the day, I think the overwhelming percentage of a plane or chisel’s performance lies in how well you sharpen it. This makes hand tools fundamentally unlike the choice between a WEN track saw and a Festool track saw. I’m guessing there’s very little you can do to either to improve their performance a tiny bit."
--adamcherubini

BINGO!

[adamcherubini]

"At the end of the day, I think the overwhelming percentage of a plane or chisel’s performance lies in how well you sharpen it. This makes hand tools fundamentally unlike the choice between a WEN track saw and a Festool track saw. I’m guessing there’s very little you can do to either to improve their performance a tiny bit."
--adamcherubini

BINGO!

It’s a weird quote because what else in our world is like that? If you want a good car, you research the best brands, consider reliability, utility, etc. imagine shopping for a sports car. You could buy a brand new Porsche or corvette and have the fastest car around. Or you could buy the cheapest economy car, give it a tune up, and will out perform the new Porsche. Preposterous notion, but true of hand tools.

One more part of this analogy. The Porsche is only fast for the first tank of gas. After that, it’s performance is dulled and it performs like the worst car you can buy.

The only thing I’d better add is, tuning up the Porsche takes less time and will likely outperform the competition by some margin once tuned, but that margin could be small and easily lost by improper tuning. If you have the coin, yeah, it’s nice to have nice looking cars in the garage. Pick what you want. Nothing wrong with that. You just can’t buy performance from a hand tool, like you can a power tool.

I’ve spent a career trying to push woodworkers to get excited about technique. You can’t monetize that. There are no manufacturers supporting that position. (tho both LN and LV deserve a lot of our respect and gratitude for trying). This is why guys like Chris Schwarz are so important for hand tool users.

If it’s true that you don’t need money or fancy tools to be a great woodworker, how can we look at ourselves in the mirror and justify another “best planes of 2023” article?

I think it’s also true that special interest web forums like this one are typically dominated (monetized) by users asking “what to purchase?” and not “how can I?” YouTube product reviews get the most clicks.

[adamcherubini]

Sorry to write so much. This is my how to answer:

If you want to smooth wood that’s machined flat with a hand plane, you need to be able to sharpen. You need a good consistent and correct bevel angle and a polished edge. That edge should slice thru printer paper without drawing the edge across the edge of the paper. You should be able to push the blade directly into the edge of that paper and it should cut without tearing. The blade must not be straight, it will need its corners relieved to some extent. The plane needs to be adjusted properly, to take good cuts, clear chips, hold its blade setting. The sole should be waxed or oiled or something to make it as slippery as it can be. I think one can achieve this with almost any plane. Biggest limiting factor in the tool is the quality of the blade, it’s ease of sharpening, heat treat, grain size and orientation/shape.

Then, with training or practice or both, you will be able to produce surfaces nicer and smoother than any power planer or sander can. Planing is also faster, quieter, and produces no harmful dust. The skill of sharpening far outweighs the skill of planing, tho both are important skills.

[bandit571]

I think I even have a spare, TUNED up No. 4 and No. 5 I could send the OP..IF he so chooses...( says the guy with 8 No.4s and 6 No. 5s)that unlike the "New & Improved" buy it now planes...these 2 I'd send WOULD be ready to go right out of the shipping box....

But..sounds like the OP has already spent his cash.....good luck....

There is another too often used quote about the new planes..."You can just FEEL the quality"....the only thing that will "feel" the quality is YOUR wallet.....

Under my workbench, there is a shelf...on that shelf is where I keep my "Daily Users"...A Stanley No. 8c....a Stanley No. 4-1/2c....a Van Camp No. 4, and a Millers Falls No. 11, type 2 Junior Jack....in the tool tray on the back of the bench, there is a Stanley No. 118 Low Angle, all steel (just in case it should get knocked to the floor) Block Plane.   These are always at the ready...I just reach down and grab whichever I need.

[Timberwolf]

Sorry to write so much. This is my how to answer:

If you want to smooth wood that’s machined flat with a hand plane, you need to be able to sharpen. You need a good consistent and correct bevel angle and a polished edge. That edge should slice thru printer paper without drawing the edge across the edge of the paper. You should be able to push the blade directly into the edge of that paper and it should cut without tearing. The blade must not be straight, it will need its corners relieved to some extent. The plane needs to be adjusted properly, to take good cuts, clear chips, hold its blade setting. The sole should be waxed or oiled or something to make it as slippery as it can be. I think one can achieve this with almost any plane. Biggest limiting factor in the tool is the quality of the blade, it’s ease of sharpening, heat treat, grain size and orientation/shape.

Then, with training or practice or both, you will be able to produce surfaces nicer and smoother than any power planer or sander can. Planing is also faster, quieter, and produces no harmful dust. The skill of sharpening far outweighs the skill of planing, tho both are important skills.

....................
The skill of sharpening far outweighs the skill of planing,

Sharpening is the VERY FIRST skill that must be mastered if one is to succeed at working wood...it is essential!!!!!!!

[Ray Newman]

Timberwolf and Adam Cherubini know what they speak of about concerning the importance of learning sharpening. I struggled through it until I found the Lee Valley honing guide. With the guide, the chore of sharpening became easier and done more often. I am trying to get myself into the habit of touching up a blade after use rather than letting it dull and require more time and effort to re- sharpen for use. Somewhere I read a woodworker say that this is called “sharpen more to sharpen less. “

Also found very interesting reading in the Lost Art Press pocket reference “Sharpen This.”

[Leandre]

Again, thanks for the responses. I don't doubt that sharpening is important, I've been cooking in a kitchen since i was 14 so i understand the importance of a sharp blade. I over spent on these so I'm out of cash ( i also bought a set of bessy clamps and a new dewalt drill/driver set) I'll get the Shapton at a later date. I'm still a newbie at this and although I have spent on power tools, I dont know if I'm a power too user. I guess i wont know until i plane for the first time. This is purely a hobby for me so the process is far more important then saving time. You may see me selling the plane a few months down the line lol I just dont know. I think i agree with adamcherubini that for me, every plane is a smoother, that make me chuckle. I think this will be a nice learning process. Now I've just for to stop buying tools and buy some wood..