Coarse Sharpening Stone

[BC in CT]

Been using the Shapton Kuromaku ceramic stones for sharpening, I've been pleased with the 1000 and 8000 stones as they work very well. However, when the need arises for a corase stone to remove material more quickly I have not had much success.

I originally started with the Atoma 400 grit diamond stone which has great reviews, and it worked really well but only for a short time. Now it feels like it hardly cuts at all. I then tried the Shapton Moss 220 grit ceramic stone but this stone really doesn't cut very well at all. It doesn't cut well with just a mist of water and creates a tremendous amount of slurry if you use too much water, but the stone cuts extremely slowly.

Looking for a better option, what do you folks use for coarse stones that you like?

[MarkWells]

Looking for a better option, what do you folks use for coarse stones that you like?

For reshaping the bevel, I use a 1x42 belt grinder.  I use this infrequently enough that if you just found a local woodworking club and could use somebody's grinder every once in a while, that would be fine.

For more moderate coarse work, I have been using a honing guide and an 18" length of 4.5" Mikra Gold 80 grit PSA sandpaper adhered to glass.  Any flat surface will do, but you want it pretty long so that you can be a human belt sander.  With the honing guide attached, you can move the blade pretty quickly on the paper and the blade will get warm.  I focus pressure on the pull stroke.  I have been using the Lie-Nielsen guide and the wheel has been getting smaller and smaller, but I haven't done anything about that yet.  I thought I was going to go through the paper so fast that it was going to be a waste of money, but it has actually lasted a really long time (or I don't do enough woodworking).  It will cut really, really fast at the beginning and then slow down and remain relatively steady.  Try both replacing the paper early and using the paper longer than you think you should.  I don't think this method would work without a honing guide.  Also, I don't grind all the way to the edge.

Other things I have tried:
* coarse crystolon stone (clogged really fast for me, but I know other people have had success, especially after cleaning it on a concrete block)
* closed coat sandpaper used for metal working (too slow)
* 40 micron 3m microabrasive paper (wears too quickly)
* Norton 3x 60 grit sandpaper (fast, but leaves deep grooves that are difficult to remove with finer media)
* zirconia sanding belts (can't get them to lay flat)
* hand crank grinder (the one I bought online wasn't in good shape)

I am seriously considering buying an 8" grinder with an CBN wheel, so I'm really interested in other responses.

Mark

[DCarr10760]

Looking for a better option, what do you folks use for coarse stones that you like?

When I was starting out the only thing that was widely available was crystalon, so I used that.  Then I used coarse paper on plate class or marble tiles. With that you have to draw the tool back only or sometimes you cut the paper.  It worked best with a guide, but it worked pretty well.

Then I bought a set of nice diamond plates, they work great, but like you it seemed like the coarse one lost its "tooth' after a relatively short time.  It still works, but it seems slower than it was at the start.

Then I saw a Paul Sellers video about making his three grit sharpening plate out of thin diamond plates sold through Amazon.  They are very inexpensive $8 - $12 each and are available in a wide range of grits, (240 - 2000).  The brand name is Jewboer.  I tried them out and they work pretty well.  They're thin, 1mm, but glued to a piece of flat plywood or MDF they're flat enough for coarse work.  They only draw backs are, they are not very long (~7x3), and not all grits are always available.  Right now they have only 240 and 400.  But I've had decent luck with them.  I bought 240, 600, and 2000.  I bought two of each and one set is still unopened.  

I have access to a nice belt grinder at work, so if I have to do any serious grinding, reshape an edge, or grind past a knick I do that there,  I only use the coarse stones to start to refresh edges for general bench work.

DC

[ChuckHill]

For more sources see:
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-d....1000002.0

There appear to be only 2-3 factories making these so many sellers have the exact same item.  Shop around for the best deal.  I have only used the 80 grit ones so far.  They remove metal pretty quickly, but are no match for a few minutes on a bench grinder with a CBN wheel.  I only use them for rehabbing the backs of plane iron and chisels.

[BC in CT]

I prefer to stay with stones as that's what i'm curently using. Also, I'm pretty skeptical on some of these odd off-shore companies so not considering going down that road.

I'm reading lots of people like the King 300, and the Norton and Naniwa 220's may be options. Any user's of the stones, or others?

[MarkWells]

I originally started with the Atoma 400 grit diamond stone which has great reviews, and it worked really well but only for a short time. Now it feels like it hardly cuts at all.

I was looking at Atoma plates recently and I noticed that they are for sale on Amazon for ~$50, but they sell at sharpeningsupplies.com and leevalley.com for ~$100.  That is very suspicious to me.  The pricing at both those sites is usually much more competitive than that.

These plates seem like an easy product to counterfeit and Amazon has a problem with counterfeits.  My understanding is that Amazon mixes the inventory from all sellers of the same product together.  Even if Amazon sells it directly, a third party seller could offer counterfeit products and the inventory gets mixed together, so ordering directly from Amazon could still mean you receive a counterfeit product. 

Does anybody know how to tell if an Atoma plate is real or counterfeit?

Mark

[ChuckHill]

I was looking at Atoma plates recently and I noticed that they are for sale on Amazon for ~$50, but they sell at sharpeningsupplies.com and leevalley.com for ~$100.  That is very suspicious to me.  The pricing at both those sites is usually much more competitive than that.

These plates seem like an easy product to counterfeit and Amazon has a problem with counterfeits.  My understanding is that Amazon mixes the inventory from all sellers of the same product together.  Even if Amazon sells it directly, a third party seller could offer counterfeit products and the inventory gets mixed together, so ordering directly from Amazon could still mean you receive a counterfeit product. 

Does anybody know how to tell if an Atoma plate is real or counterfeit?

Mark

You can also buy just the diamond sheet on Amazon (to replace a worn out one on the plate).  These can be cheaper and it is not always clear what you are buying.  Reading recent reviews is one way to check what is getting sold and that it is legit.  That said, I have bought the real deal for between $50 and $75 at "Neo field of Japan" and ''Japan Super Fine Select Shop" Amazon stores.  Even there the descriptions are not clear.  I bought what was advertised as the diamond sheet only and the comments said it was the full plate.  I received the full plate in original Atoma packaging.  

You want the 140 grit for faster material removal.

[Timberwolf]

Been using the Shapton Kuromaku ceramic stones for sharpening, I've been pleased with the 1000 and 8000 stones as they work very well.  However, when the need arises for a corase stone to remove material more quickly I have not had much success. 

I originally started with the Atoma 400 grit diamond stone which has great reviews, and it worked really well but only for a short time. Now it feels like it hardly cuts at all.  I then tried the Shapton Moss 220 grit ceramic stone but this stone really doesn't cut very well at all.  It doesn't cut well with just a mist of water and creates a tremendous amount of slurry if you use too much water, but the stone cuts extremely slowly.

Looking for a better option, what do you folks use for coarse stones that you like?

...................
I have a Tormek but for the most bang for the buck, this is what I recommend...Worksharp 3000...To kick it up a notch, you can buy a 120grit diamond plate from Amazon for 12 bucks..The LV MKII is very good also but it is higher priced...The "not so secret" weapon tho, is the diamond plates..The 8" lap will work on the WS 3000 even tho it is larger in diameter..it provides more diamond surface..Used with light oil, the plates last a very long time, and they are available in grits up to 3,000...

[MarkWells]

The LV MKII is very good also but it is higher priced...

OP wants to use stones, but I wanted to make a quick comment that I would not recommend the Veritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System.  I bought one in 2003 because I thought it would solve my sharpening problem.  It did not.  The speed of the abrasive is higher at the edge of the disk, which makes the blade edge curved.  I have talked to several other people with this same problem and if you look around, I can't think of one well known woodworker who uses that system.  It frustrates me that Lee Valley continues to sell products like this and the original honing guide, which clearly have design flaws.

Mark

[Timberwolf]

OP wants to use stones, but I wanted to make a quick comment that I would not recommend the Veritas Mk.II Power Sharpening System.  I bought one in 2003 because I thought it would solve my sharpening problem.  It did not.  The speed of the abrasive is higher at the edge of the disk, which makes the blade edge curved.  I have talked to several other people with this same problem and if you look around, I can't think of one well known woodworker who uses that system.  It frustrates me that Lee Valley continues to sell products like this and the original honing guide, which clearly have design flaws.

Mark

...............
2003 is about the time I bought my MKII but I also have a Foley Belsaw horizontal power lap and the WS3000...Sharpening is something I love to do and have for fifty years..I make of wood carving knives and have lots of other sharpening machines such as belt grinders etc. Each one has it's idiosyncrasies, but I have no trouble sharpening plane blades on any of them. Horizontal grinders have  their own technique, and so far, I have not found a machine that is the "last word" in sharpening every conceivable tool.

Here's a shot of a slow-speed belt grinder that I made a few years ago and use almost daily for sharpening my blades..It runs at about 1,000FPS or about one third the speed of most commercial grinders. Not much danger of drawing the temper at this speed.