Dust collector design question?

[jteneyck]

John,

I’m not as interested in the unit number of sales Oneida has, I’m more interested in the performance of the one unit in my shop.

As I’m sure you know big companies like Oneida don’t let the engineers have free reign to build the best, they are constrained by the accounting department.
So while they have sold a lot of units I’m not convinced they are the best.

The early clearvue weren’t Pentz designs.

I’m not completely convinced that even Pentz design is the best, but his explanation of things like the slanted intake make enough since to me that I’d make a cyclone of his design before I bought a standard Oneida cyclone.

This is one of the reasons I like to see head to head comparisons on YouTube etc.  I know that even that is subject to bias based on support.

Duke

If you design your dust collection system to provide at least the minimum CFM required for each individual machine, use the performance curves published by the manufacturers and account for all the static pressure drops in the piping to size the unit appropriately it doesn't matter much who's collector you use.  At that point having "the best" might come down to a couple of amps saved or a few percent less going into the filters.  If all the units have a HEPA filter, for example, the quality of the air being returned to the room will be the same.  

John

[JDuke]

Looks like there’s another option as well.

Record camvac uses 3 vacuum motors ganged together to offer 81 inches of water lift with 891CFM at 4’

I’m wondering how well a camvac would pair with a super dust deputy.

Duke

Looks like it would be easy enough to make a unit like the record camvac with 3-4 shop vac motors and just put it in a barrel above a cyclone with a canister filter in between and you would essentially have a version of the supercell

[jteneyck]

Looks like there’s another option as well.

Record camvac uses 3 vacuum motors ganged together to offer 81 inches of water lift with 891CFM at 4’

I’m wondering how well a camvac would pair with a super dust deputy.

Duke

Looks like it would be easy enough to make a unit like the record camvac with 3-4 shop vac motors and just put it in a barrel above a cyclone with a canister filter in between and you would essentially have a version of the supercell

Once you add up costs and time required, I'll bet a commercial unit will look pretty attractive.  In the end, do you want to spend your time building equipment that may or may not work as you hope, or building woodworking related projects?  Your choice.  

John

[JDuke]

Once you add up costs and time required, I'll bet a commercial unit will look pretty attractive.  In the end, do you want to spend your time building equipment that may or may not work as you hope, or building woodworking related projects?  Your choice.  

John

John,

I like to tinker and modify tools probably more than I like to woodwork.

That’s why I’ve built control boxes for multiple x-carves, modified a cnc plasma to router, built 2 cnc plasma tables from ground up, built a cnc router from ground up, retrofit a cnc mill with new controls, built a router table from old tablesaw, etc. 

So yes, I’m interested in the design and modifications of tools, the why it works, not just what my dollars will buy. 

I’m not going to go out and buy 3 brand new shop vacs to hook up to a super dust deputy but I might scour Craigslist and get 3 or 4 old house vacs for a few dollars and see what kind of suction I can get. May even try 3-4 of the shop vacs I already have to see if that is a better option. 

Since it looks like the concept has at least gained a little traction with both Oneida and record producing similar types of machines, maybe other manufacturers will get on board and we will see more options for high static pressure high volume dust collection.

Edit to add, looks like you and I are the only two that read or post in the power tool forum anymore.

[jteneyck]

John,

I like to tinker and modify tools probably more than I like to woodwork.

That’s why I’ve built control boxes for multiple x-carves, modified a cnc plasma to router, built 2 cnc plasma tables from ground up, built a cnc router from ground up, retrofit a cnc mill with new controls, built a router table from old tablesaw, etc. 

So yes, I’m interested in the design and modifications of tools, the why it works, not just what my dollars will buy. 

I’m not going to go out and buy 3 brand new shop vacs to hook up to a super dust deputy but I might scour Craigslist and get 3 or 4 old house vacs for a few dollars and see what kind of suction I can get. May even try 3-4 of the shop vacs I already have to see if that is a better option. 

Since it looks like the concept has at least gained a little traction with both Oneida and record producing similar types of machines, maybe other manufacturers will get on board and we will see more options for high static pressure high volume dust collection.

Edit to add, looks like you and I are the only two that read or post in the power tool forum anymore.

Sadly, no one posts much of anything here anymore.  Even fewer, photos of actual projects.  

It sounds like you have a good project to work on then.  By all means, have at it, and let us know how it goes.  

John

[greenacres2]

I don't have anything to add on dust collecting (though our house seems to be talented at collecting dust!!), but i do read twice a day and you're both valuable resources for me. Thanks for all the education!!
earl

[JDuke]

Little bit of experimentation today.
I have a delta 50-760 dust collector with canister filter from Wynn.

With my wind speed meter held at the blade opening without insert present and 6” duct from super dust deputy necked down right at the back of the Sawstop. Wind speed was 7.1 mph

Same setup except replaced the delta with a commercial wet dry vac, a rigid NXT shop vac and a Bauer 6 gallon vacuum all piped to an adapter plate to suck from the super dust deputy was still able to get 5.1 MPH of wind speed at the blade opening on Sawstop.

Looks like the dust collector is getting better wind speed, but I can see a setup that would be useful with shop vacs ganged together.

The shop vacs do seem to have more suction than my old harbor freight DC with rikon impeller.

[taxman]

I don't have anything to add on dust collecting (though our house seems to be talented at collecting dust!!), but i do read twice a day and you're both valuable resources for me.  Thanks for all the education!!
earl

Hi John & Duke,

While I don't have the technical expertise to add much, like Earl, I enjoy reading the info presented! 

Don't go private. I suspect more are watching than you think.

Lance

[JDuke]

Interesting aside on how small the impeller/fan is on a shop vac.

Bought a $50 Bauer shop vac to experiment with and found that it’s impeller is about 112mm in diameter or just about 4.4 inches.
And about 1/8 inch thick at the edge. This thing is positively tiny.

Of course it spins at very high RPM to produce suction.

[jteneyck]

Interesting aside on how small the impeller/fan is on a shop vac.

Bought a $50 Bauer shop vac to experiment with and found that it’s impeller is about 112mm in diameter or just about 4.4 inches.
And about 1/8 inch thick at the edge. This thing is positively tiny.

Of course it spins at very high RPM to produce suction.

That's actually pretty large.  Ever look at a Dyson vacuum?  

John