Staining Red Oak

[tuneswoodshop]

Hello Fellow woodworkers,
I have a project that requires staining red oak picture frames. I have stained red oak in the past but had the oak bleed the stain back out and leave blotches where the stain seeped out of the pores. I have had it were they dont bleed until I put the first coat of poly on so What tips or techniques can I use to minimize the bleed back? I have read on other forums and blogs that certain brands of stain are more prone to bleeding back out due to there chemical composition. Is there any truth to that? Would a pre stain or wood conditioner be something I need to try? Also do stains ever get old and no longer usable?
Thanks for your advice

[Splinter Puller]

fill the pores before staining?

[jteneyck]

I've never had that happen but I've heard from folks like you that it can. Maybe you aren't sanding fine enough. I almost always sand to at least 150 grit and usually 180. I've used lots of different oil based stains, MinWax, Zar, etc. they all seem to work about the same. As long as they are still liquid in the can they are fine to use. Even when they skin over you can remove that skin and the stuff underneath is fine.

If the stain is bleeding back only when you apply the first coat of poly then you are not waiting long enough for it to dry. Try waiting at least one day longer than you were and I bet that won't happen anymore.

One other note. Stains are meant to be wiped off - completely. If you are leaving a substantial amount of stain on the surface instead, that could be a large part of the problem. If you are doing that trying to get a darker color, either wait longer before wiping, don't sand as fine, apply a second coat after the first is really dry, or switch to a gel stain where you can leave on as much as you want.

Good luck,

John

[JR1]

Try using a 1# cut coat of Thai seed shellac or if the natural shades are not what you want use a 1# cut coat of Orange shellac with transtint. Those work much more reliably than a standard stain and are easier to change if necessary.

The best grain filler I have hit is the Crystalac Waterborne Wood Grain Filler it does the least to suppress the grain but is messy to apply.

In any case do test!

[Cooler]

I've had that happen when I used Minwax oil based stains. I solved that by first wiping off the stain, and then about an hour later using a clean rag I wiped again burnishing in the rag with the grain. You have to press pretty hard to get the rag to go into the pores to pull out the excess.

I suppose if you waited a few days the stain would fully dry in the pores, or you could use a rattle can of Seal Coat shellac. It will trap the stain and give good adhesion for your follow up coats. It will impart a slight amber color (not much though) and you might count it as one of your clear coats. So if you normally apply three coats, then use the Seal Coat + two coats.

[Howard Acheson]

Your problem is caused by the large pores in red oak. The first application mostly fills the pore but not fully. As the Watco continures to cure it produces heat and causes the un-dried Watco in the bottom of the pores to swell slightly causing the material to rise.

Some solutions: One is to thoroughly and completely wipe the initial coat as dry as you can get it. Continue to check the surface every 20-30 minutes and again wipe the surface thoroughly. Continue until the material ceases to bleed-back. Let the surface they dry 24 hours before applying another coat. Once the first coat is completely dry, subsequent coats will not bleed-back.