Chisels?

[Roger A]

I have a set of Marples chisels that while I can sharpen them, the edges are very brittle, and break down with little use.

I have been doing more hand tool work lately and would like to purchase a few new chisels that maybe will hold up better. Main use will be chopping and paring dovetails. I already have a set of Sorby sash mortice chisels. I recently added a couple of Narex. Chisels, and find them only slightly better than my blue ones. So, Ihave a few questions.

1. Is PMV11 really that muchtougher? I have some LV plane blades and they seem to hold up well and take a keen edge.

2. Japanese chisel? They run from cheap to ridiculous. Any suggestions here? I know they canbe had in "dovetail" style with very narrow or sharp edges.
3. Others?

I just want say a goid 1/2", and 1/4" for dovetails, and a wider one, say 1" or so for paring, perhaps even a "paring" style of chisel.

All comments welcome.

Roger

[Pat Zabrocki]

What angle are you sharpening? Might be too shallow. I have on PMV-11 that Secret Santa gave me last year and it is just awesome. My Lie-Nielsens remain sharp for a long. I also have Stanley 750s that perform wonderfully but I don't use them anymore.
pat

[Timberwolf]

Quote:

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What angle are you sharpening? Might be too shallow.

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Try a micro-bevel...

[Guest]

Roger,

You will get lots of replies and suggestions. Chisels are subjective, everyone has favorites, and you can spend not much to a bunch for good ones. The Lie-Nielsens and the Lee Valley PMVwhatevers are probably the favorites at the moment. I've not used either one; but, from all reports, they are both very fine chisels. I went on a chisel binge 10 years or so ago and have a shop full of oldies, Stanleys, Witherbys, Swans etc., and they are all excellent; much better than the Sorbys and Marples I had. My favorites for fine cabinet work are a set of Matsumura blue steel cabinet chisels from the Japan Woodworker my wife gave to me over the course of several years. They take a wonderfully keen edge on waterstones and hold it for a very long time. They are great all-round bench chisels for everything except, perhaps, really heavy chopping or work that requires a long blade. Their edges (sides) are beveled so they are excellent for dovetails. They're not beveled down to a sharp edge like the newer Japanese "dovetail" chisels or some of the modern Western chisels, but they still work great for dovetails. They are fairly pricy, but not nearly as expensive as some of the exotic Japanese chisels you can buy. I like hitting hooped Japanese chisels with a steel hammer rather than a mallet, like you use for Western chisels. Not trying to sell you on Japanese chisels, just giving you my thoughts and experience. There are lots of good choices out there. Pick one and stick with it. You'll be happy with pretty much whatever you pick.

[Bibliophile 13]

I, too, would try a steeper bevel on your current chisels, or a secondary bevel at least.

As to replacing them, yes, lots and lots and lots of options. I really like the vintage Witherbys I have. If I had it to do over again and didn't have vintage chisels available, t think I would have gotten some Japanese chisels, at least a couple. You don't have to spend a huge amount of money to get a good one, either. Just be aware that they're mostly hand-forged to approximate metric sizes. That means you won't want to try to use them as gauges (I sometimes use a mortise chisel, for example, to measure a 1/4" or 3/8" offset, or to set a marking gauge precisely), but otherwise the metric thing really won't be a problem.

You are absolutely right that you don't need a full set. Three or four is about right. So here's a thought: what about buying three different types of chisels? Maybe one Japanese, one Veritas, and one of another kind, and see which type you prefer? If you really don't like one kind, it may be returnable. In any case, you won't have spent an exorbitant amount of money just to find out you didn't like that particular type of chisel.

[Roger A]

I sharpen at 25 degrees primary bevel, and a 2 degree higher micro bevel. What angle is suggested? 30 degrees? Higher? Certainlt for chopping devotails a higher bevel will improve things, almost like chopping a mortise.

Will it improve edge retention all that much? I guess it would not hurt to try anyway. I am just tired of having to re-establish the edge every time because of small fractures.
Roger

[Admiral]

Roger A said:

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Will it improve edge retention all that much? I guess it would not hurt to try anyway. I am just tired of having to re-establish the edge every time because of small fractures.
Roger

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Have you ground them down a bit? Sometimes, the edges don't get the proper heat treating for some reason and are brittle, and the solution is to grind them back a bit to get to the "firmer" steel if you know what I mean; I'm speaking of the Marples ones in particular. Take one, and grind the edge back at 25 deg the edge a bit more than you would ordinarily consider doing (i.e., 3/16" or so, no more than 1/4") then sharpen, and see if you still get the fractures. I'm betting you won't.

That's the nice thing about vintage chisels, they've been sharpened back pretty much and if the steel is good you're ready to go.

[Derek Cohen]

Roger

A while back I compared 4 chisel steels chopping into hardwood. In brief, a Koyamaichi white steel just beat out a Veritas PM-V11, while both were very clearly superior to O1 and A2 chisels. One of the points that must be made is that Rule #1 for bench chisels that will use a mallet/hammer is that the bevel is 30 degrees. Well I broke this rule with the PM-V11 - not deliberately, mind you ... just did not plan the test and forgot the Veritas was honed at 25 degrees.

This says a great deal about the toughness of the PM-V11 steel. The test results also say a great deal of good about the Koyamaichi. Both excellent chisels.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews...pared.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[DaveParkis]

I also think that 25 degrees is too acute for chopping. I usually sharpen my bench chisels with a 25 degree primary bevel and a 30 degree secondary bevel. My everyday chisels are an old set of the blue handled Marples and they hold up well. I use different angles for mortise chisels and paring chisels, but the Marples get about 90% of the use. I'd try grinding the edges back a bit like Admiral suggested and then establishing a 25 degree primary/30 degree secondary.

[barryvabeach]

I have the old blue handle Marples chisels, and have had them forever. I think the handle is extremely comfortable, but no matter what angle you grind them too, the edge is pretty weak and will crumble. I have 3 PM-V11 chisels, and they do hold an edge a long time, no comparison to the Marples. I have a few Japanese chisels from assorted makers - they get much sharper than the Marples, and last far longer than the Marples, though I have never done a test to see how long they last compared to the PM-V11 chisels. While edge retention and sharpness are pretty important, handle shape and size is very important as well, so it is best if you can either hold the chisel before you buy it, or find someone that will allow a free return. BTW, I like a bigger handle than the ones on the LV or the Japanese chisels, so I made my own, and that is another option, especially if you are only buying a few.