Primer for use under chalk paint

[KMC]

I built 6 board chest as use for a toy box and am now ready to paint. I was planning to try out a milk paint but my wife picked out a quart of van Gogh Fossil Paint.

I tried it on a test piece and it adhered to the unfinished pine very well. However once dry is scratched easily off the clout nail heads. Any recommendations for a good prime that will adhere well to the nails?

[Cooler]

I don't know this company but chalk paint is a matte finish similar to milk paint.

I am making tests now for refinishing my kitchen cabinets. I am planning on using SealCoat for a primer. I ordered General Finishes "milk paint" which is an imitation milk paint made with modern technology. I applied it to a 6" square of red oak plywood. It took two coats. I applied with a foam brush. The finish was perfect with no brush strokes or runs (I was painting on a flat surface so no runs were expected).

I am going to top coat this with a clear semi-gloss finish (undecided as of now what to use). It scuffs very easily, and as it is black it will show up as a white-ish scuff mark. The clear coat should resolve that issue however.

The problem with this stuff is that it is ungodly expensive. So I went to the Sherwin-Williams store this morning and asked them to color match and sheen match this as closely as possible. They scanned the sample to get the color (perfect). The finish looks slightly shinier, but not an issue as I am going to top coat.

The store only applied to a corner of the test sample for color. Surprisingly (to me) the S-W paint and the GF paint are not compatible. The area where the S-W paint overcoated the GF paint became slightly wrinkled.

When I get home I will test the S-W paint for application. But it costs less than half. The S-W dealer tells me that this is a "one coat" finish, and if that proves true then this will be 1/4 the cost of the GF finish.

This is a first for me so I will do quite a bit of testing before applying the finish. But my initial reaction to the matte finish is that it scuffs very easily and if the chalk paint behaves similarly you might be disappointed with the wear characteristics.

I will report on Monday my findings on the S-W finish. Also I will report on the top coat. I also ordered GF Endurovar which is also ungodly expensive. But my experience with Minwax's waterborne poly was not excellent. I will buy a pint of Deft's waterborne and try that too. I should be able to report on Monday.

[JR1]

LIL has it right. Shellac should works as a primer unless the manufacturer has a recommendation. But the SW is a paint not a clear topcoat. I agree that the GF is expensive but the equivalent SW is A100 without any tint but that's an outdoor finish and not as scratch resistant.

[Cooler]

The paint that S-W sold me was Duration Interior Matte, custom color black. I have not tested it yet. But the color match to the GF milk paint is close enough that I cannot tell them apart.

The adhesion will be a large part a consequence of the underlying SealCoat. Shellac seems to stick to everything and everything seems to stick to shellac, so I am not expecting an adhesion issue with either product.

The durability of the finish I suspect is going to be largely a consequence of the top coat. On the black I may go with Minwax's oil based poly, which from long experience I know is a really tough finish that will easily stand up to the rigors of the kitchen. I don't know how well the oil base will do with the painted substrate. I will know this weekend.

I also don't know if the S-W paint will lay down as well as the GF milk paint. The milk paint brushed out ugly (both coats) but dried out perfectly with no brush lines or other imperfections. As nearly perfect as I have ever seen a brushed finish. It may be the deciding factor. But I have found that matte finish latex brushes out way better than the glossier family members. So I will wait until I have tried out the S-W paint.

The GF milk paint is not a milk paint at all, but a modern finish meant to look like one. No arguments from me; I think they did a fine job. But before I shell out $300.00 in paint I think I owe it to myself to see if the S-W paint (also a modern finish) does as well.

On a side note I used S-W glossy exterior paint and it was dreadful. So it will be a case of "show me".

[jteneyck]

I am as cheap as most, but I have found that the cost of finishes to be cheap compared to the cost of wood, hardware, handles, etc.. It's what you see first with any project so it has to look good, and it has to stand up to the expected conditions. I think all of GF's products are expensive to unreasonably expensive, yet I keep buying them because they are generally easy to apply, look good, and in most cases are as durable as GF claims. That said, I've liked most SW products I've used, too.

From personal experience, GF's milk paint goes a long, long way. And it looks great topcoated with Enduro Clear Poly (and also HP Poly but I wouldn't use that for kitchen cabinets). I would call GF before putting EnduroVar over their milk paint just to be sure it will be compatible over the long haul.

John

[Cooler]

As you can deduce from my earlier posts I am a little put-off by the cost of the General Finishes milk paint.

I went to Sherwin-Williams to see if they could match up with the G-F products products at a lower cost. As a rule S-W makes good paint.

I tested out the matte finish Sherwin-Williams (black) paint. I was impressed. It brushed out easily and left almost no brush marks; a nearly perfect finish. Its only drawback was that I had a sample prepared from the GF “milk paint” and that finish had zero brush marks and was as perfect a finish as I’ve seen. It could have been sprayed by an expert judging by the appearance of the finish.

The S-W also had a texture as much as it had a matte finish. The texture was somewhat grainy; like some very fine sand was mixed in. It was not nearly as nice as the GF product.

So the nod goes to GF’s milk paint. I will use the quart of S-W matte finish for toe kicks and low visibility areas.

I also wanted to try out clear top coats. I have used Minwax’s water based Polycrylic and I have not been pleased with how it brushes out. I bought a quart of Varathane’s “triple thick” poly. They make claims that one coat equals three coats of the competitors' finish.

It is not triple thick. It is more like 10 times as thick. It is so thick that I could not brush it out; all I could do was shove it across the surface with my foam brush. It was not only thick, but somewhat tacky and was difficult to brush out. I did manage to get a fairly uniform coating over a 6” square of red oak ply that had the SW base (two coats). No matter what I did I could not brush out the ridges cause by the over-thick poly. It was “self-leveling” so I had hopes that it would level out.

It was self–leveling. Most the brushed ridges did flatten out, but not entirely. Also the finish is now on for 2½ days and it remains significantly softer than the test sample I made at the same time with Min-wax’s oil base. I can easily scratch through the finish with my thumbnail. It is not really fair to judge at this time as it will take another 5 days to fully cure.

There is probably a place for this finish. Not in my shop. It will be relegated to the toe-kicks along with the S-W matte black.

I have been using Minwax’s oil based poly for over 20 years and I have my application technique down pat. As I expected the oil based poly top coat (semi-gloss) looked excellent. This works for the black base cabinets.

However I want to use Arctic White for the wall cabinets and the oil base will introduce an amber tint. So I am going to want to come up with some solution for that finish that is water-clear.

The General Finish’s imitation “milk paint” appears to be a first-rate product and is the clear winner (albeit very pricy) in this face off with the S-W matte finish paint.

[fredhargis]

Can I ask what this stuff (GF milk paint) costs. I looked at Woodworker's Hardware site and it was about $23/qt. That doesn't strike me as expensive as I would believe from this thread. I'm thinking I'm looking at a different product.

[Cooler]

fredhargis said:

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Can I ask what this stuff (GF milk paint) costs. I looked at Woodworker's Hardware site and it was about $23/qt. That doesn't strike me as expensive as I would believe from this thread. I'm thinking I'm looking at a different product.

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It appears that I got raped on the pricing. I bought it from Amazon.com (ships and sells from Amazon) at $19.95 per PINT!!!

Usually if it ships and sells from Amazon it is competitive and I thought I was buying a quart but it came in this tiny container and I was aghast at the cost. I will buy my future ones from either Woodworkers Hardware or I have found a local vendor and I will have to check with them on their pricing.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DT5...ailpages00

[Cooler]

fredhargis said:

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Can I ask what this stuff (GF milk paint) costs. I looked at Woodworker's Hardware site and it was about $23/qt. That doesn't strike me as expensive as I would believe from this thread. I'm thinking I'm looking at a different product.

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The local vendor (an unpainted furniture manufacturer) wrote back to me this afternoon with prices that are close enough to the on line pricing:

Quart and gallon prices for the paint are 28.33 and 76.67
Would not use Endurovar as it amber's instead suggest High Performance Water Based Polyurethane.
That is same price for quarts and Gallons.

[Cooler]

I am modifying my recommendation for Seal Coat as a primer.

I am finishing some cabinets using Seal Coat plus General Finishes milk paint + clear top coat.

Even though I am certain that the Seal Coat will offer excellent adhesion I am switching to another primer. The seal coat after light sanding is a little slick and the milk paint on the first coat smears around too much instead of applying evenly. The second coat does fine. But I've had to touch up on the 2nd coat with spot application of a 3rd coat.

For the most recent cabinet I used Rustoleum oil based sandable primer (rattle can). The first coat went on yesterday and applied much better.

I was looking for a brushable version but they only had the rattle cans. But a definite improvement in the first coat application.

I will apply the second coat tonight. I suspect that no 3rd coat will be required but I will advise.