What is good? Is good enough good?

[Derek Cohen]

Perhaps it is time on this newfanged forum to have a decent discussion.

Recently there was a thread on WoodCentral forum that began with the question, "when do you sharpen your blade?". I (amongst others) supplied a simple answer, essentially "when we feel the plane resisting and we have to push a little harder". The thread developed, as threads do, and someone asked a question whether the modern steels are worth the extra effort to sharpen. 

This thread made me think about what we consider to be good and sufficient (for example, what is good and sufficient as a choice of plane or chisel steel?). There are many tools that are good enough, and a better tool is not necessarily going to make a significant difference. 

When I began publishing reviews some 10 years ago, there was a focus on comparative testing. While this was helpful in obtaining a context or offering up benchmarks for most to use, it also threatened to sidetrack discussion and conclusions into "which is better, X,Y or Z?".
With regard blade tests, it is easy to write "X performed better than Y" and provide the conditions for this. What is still missing is whether X minus Y is actually relevant. For example, is it helpful to you that a Lanthanum blade can last 516 strokes and a Neodymium "only" 300? What if all you need is 200 strokes? And you plan to sharpen the blade before you use it anyway, because that is good practice?

Better tools, better blades .. make a difference to the work you do. Better is contextual, not absolute. The question that does not come up in the reviews (anyones) is whether the advance is important enough to you to warrant a change or the purchase. Only you can say so. 

Your thoughts?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Carl Grover]

I think the reason a lot of guys go with these new fangled steels is so they can get out of sharpening so often.


carl

[Rob Young]

If you are referencing "sharpening and frequency thereof" in your thread title:

Sharpen to the best of your ability (which will rise) when it feels like the tool is fighting you.  At the least this is at the beginning or the end of a work session.

Does the steel matter?  Not particularly if one develops a good sharpening regimen.  As opposed to sharpening being the hobby.



If you are referencing "am I doing my best work or can I do better" as the question: 

"Good" is when you are done with the task and somebody riding a galloping horse in the moonlight would say it is "nice work".  "Good enough" is when you are no longer embarrassed to show the work.  "Better" is when you master the art of not pointing out all your mistakes.  "Best" is when even you have a hard time finding your own mistakes and their fixes.  It is a continuum and not necessarily a linear one.

[hbmcc]

I just realized this is winter for Derek, and "dog days" for the rest of us. I will have another coffee and struggle to reply....

In my mad rampage to discover "better" steels I slammed into the biggest obstacle quickly: ease of sharpening. In shaking out the rest of the dust, the next issue--no less gruesome--is how brittle, or malleable the edge is. A third dust mote was how I worked the tool made a difference. A rider on that third burro was the choice of tool for the job.

So, good can be good enough; or, not good at all--even garbage. However, given the modern proclivity for marketing and wanting "better-and-best", I don't think one can ever find "ideal".  I am resigned to a clutter of "adequate" and "less adequate" that reminds me of hoarding. I'm not inclined to open my closet to skeletal criticism, or the Dr. yet. After all, it's the peak of weather heat-humidity misery and the AC died last weekend.

[Admiral]

I try not to get my knickers in a knot over this or that steel.....but there is a difference in vintage versus premium; when I find a plane with a nice Stanley laminated iron that's great as they work very well when sharpened up and hold an edge well; the MF irons are pretty good too.  So I call them "good enough" for my work, which is basically cherry, maple, walnut, oak and softer poplar and pine.  That being said, upgrading to a Hock O1 brings a noticeable difference, say about 10% in performance which I ascribe to the extra thickness of the iron.  I also have some Ohio laminated irons that are nice and thick as well, all high carbon steel.  In my premium planes, I've never gotten more exotic than A2 in one or two cases, the others are all O1 by my choice when I had a choice.

Perhaps because I'm not intimidated by sharpening, or having to tune up an edge for a few minutes during work sessions, I don't see the need for extreme edge retention, much less buying the sharpening media necessary for sharpening the super steels.  I like to keep sharpening simple, a mix of oilstones, waterstones, "mystery" natural stones and stropping on brown paper grocery bags on my jointer bed works for me.

[cputnam]

If one is striving for perfection, then nothing less will do.  If one is just trying to "git 'er done" then perfection is the enemy of good enough.  We all know what perfection looks and feels like.  Absent perfection, placement on the continuum from awful to good to good enough is a very personal decision.

I've been fortunate enough to be able to afford good tools so I've bought Veritas and Lie-Nielson tools.  They are certainly good enough  
 Just for grins I've bought a few woodies over the last couple years.  Haven't much used them yet because I'm struggling with getting the wedge set and iron adjusted.  So, in terms of daily users, the LV/LN choices have been good.

Now that PM-V11 is out I buy it when it is a choice and I'm slowly buying PM-V11 replacement blades and chip breakers for the Stanley planes.  I bought PM-V11 for the shooter but swapped in the O1 iron from the jack.  I figure the jack gets a lot more work than the shooter.  Perhaps because I use a honing guide, I've not found that honing a PM-V11 edge takes much longer or is more difficult than vintage or O1.  Resetting a bevel is another story and really makes the case for power.

JMO & YMWV

[frigator]

I'm real bad about delaying sharpening. When A tool dulls I just put it down and pick up another one. I usually have several different planes that will work and chisels also . So I sometimes find myself sitting down to sharpen 12 irons or chisels at one time. I guess that's one reason I like to use that Lee Valley power sharpener. I have several tool rests so I can jig up several blades and use them on each grit before changing platters.

The only exception is when doing dovetails. I have these really nice Japanese blue steel fishtails that I stick with And sharpen as I go.

As to when to sharpen, I really don't want to put too much wear on a blade and have to regrind the bevel. So I try not to chip or force it. If it starts to slow down I just grab another one.

[JimReed@Tallahassee]

My shop is an oven so I may as well be in the cool A/C jaw-jacking (figuratively) on the computer. I understand the questions of sharpness--especially those from new users. Handplane craft has a steep learning curve and can be daunting. It is natural that a beginner should wonder about blade sharpness because that is where the action takes place. It is hard to know what sharpness is until you see a blade that is sharpened really well. And then you wonder how it got that way and how are you ever going to do something like that. In the midst of this challenge, the tool purveyors enter and are eager to bring new products to market. New products and advanced steels are good but they can add to the beginner's confusion. I feel their pain. My recommendation is to start where they are comfortable and branch out when they have reached mastery.

In my own case, I was disappointed with Stanley blades so I made my own. I use O-1 steel exclusively. It is a steel I am familiar with and I like how it performs. One day I will master it and then I can move on to exotics. Until then, I am happy. I use a mix of LN blades, my blades, and some Stanley blades. These blades all perform consistently. The harder ones stay sharp longer and take longer to sharpen. The soft ones dull quickly and sharpen quickly.

I have sharpened thousands of edges and have the tools and techniques to do it quickly. Need a touch up? I can have it ready to go in seconds. New bevel? Maybe two minutes. Have an edge nick? I can grind it out and sharpen the blade to shave hairs in a matter of minutes. Even so, I hate to be bothered with sharpening. It takes lots longer to disengage the blade and readjust it. Sharpening is a snap. For this reason, I keep doubles and triples of planes about. It is easier for me to maintain three or four jack planes. This is my workflow.

So as tempting as the exotic metals are, as high as the promises are, as good as the reviews are--my answer is not yet. I have a good plan and am comfortable with it. Once I master O-1 I will venture out. Until then, I have woodworking skills to work on.

[MichaelMouse]

So as tempting as the exotic metals are, as high as the promises are, as good as the reviews are--my answer is not yet. I have a good plan and am comfortable with it. Once I master O-1 I will venture out. Until then, I have woodworking skills to work on.

As I read it, most of the common alloy metals are about heat resistance, something which doesn't really affect a chisel or plane iron in normal useage.  Looks good in advertisding, but not sure what difference there may be in utility.  https://www.thebalance.com/common-steel-...ts-2340004

Truth to tell, I can't see much difference in time between sharpenings in some exotic alloy and process tools I use at the lathe.  There, especially as I use a lot of wet wood, corrosion resistance counts more than toughness.

[Anji12305]

For me, the experience of having Blue Spruce chisels Rc60 A2 steel just bounce off my Shapton's pushed me in another direction; steels that not quite so hard with more ductility.

When I was casting around for ways to more quickly grind modern high performance steel I started working with 'softer' blades that could be quickly dressed on two oilstones and a strop.

There are higher performance steels than those in my planes and chisels, but I can get the ones I use so sharp as I am able in less than five minutes (longer if I need to grind past a chip).

Good enough for me is stock ECE or HNT Gordon irons and my Marples chisels.

If I had a powered wheel grinder, perhaps the powdered steel blades would be 'good enough'.