Buying and selling tools online using Paypal - Fee Free. No protection.

[Gregory of Sherwood Forest]

Okay, I've learned something recently, although I did always know that it was possible.

I've now made hundreds of purchases here on WoodNet, and thru Facebook groups and other forums. In all those transactions, I've only been scammed a few times. I know that the forums can't help enforce a transaction, and they shouldn't be asked to. The risks belong entirely to the buyer and seller.

However, in almost all of the transactions, the seller has requested Paypal using the "Friends & Family" fee free option. I understand they don't want a percentage of their sale being taken from them, but that also absolves Paypal from any responsibility to help a buyer from being scammed. The regular Buy/Sell payment system using Paypal has protections that the Fee Free version doesn't.

Recently, I wanted to purchase from a seller here, but instead of agreeing to use the Friends and Family Fee Free option, I asked if he would allow me to use the regular Buy/Sell method, but to add a few dollars to it in order to cover the fees. He declined that option, saying he'd rather not. He said that he may have to declare such a transaction on his taxes using that function. Well, with my accounting background, I knew that, technically (although not in practice by many), if he receives cash transactions, they are just as susceptible to taxation as sales transactions. The tax code leaves room in there, of course. Anyway, all that is just picking nits, right?

The major problem is that the use of the F&F option removes all the protection from the buyer. I'm not comfortable with that unless I know the person, or have had prior good dealings with the seller. ALMOST WITHOUT FAIL, the transaction works fine. Woodworkers, by and large, are great people.

So, without trying to turn this molehill into a mountain, how comfortable are you in using the F&F option with someone you have no experience with, or that has no reputation to lean on? Do you think that a seller should be okay with using the Buy/Sell option with fees if the buyer will cover those fees?

Just looking for some perspective, I guess. Thanks in advance.

[brianwelch]

If you don't know or trust the seller, you could always send a MO or bank check thru USPS. Postal fraud is not treated lightly. Not using PP, with you willing to pick up the fees would be a red flag for me...IMHO

[Rob Young]

I have the same reservations about the F&F vs. "regular" PayPal.  But if I know them, I'll do it at their request.  I've also offer up the addition of a few extra bucks to compensate for the normal transfer fees.

If one is using PayPal with regularity as a seller of stuff, they should be using the normal mechanism and doing the appropriate bookkeeping for taxes.  

For the record, I only have a Mastercard attached to my PayPal.

[CLETUS]

1. So, without trying to turn this molehill into a mountain, how comfortable are you in using the F&F option with someone you have no experience with, or that has no reputation to lean on?


2. Do you think that a seller should be okay with using the Buy/Sell option with fees if the buyer will cover those fees?

1. If the item is less than $50, I just mail cash. However, I only buy from folks I "know" from WN or one other site. Other than that, it is through Ebay.

2. That is up to the seller, if he doesn't want too, then no sale. His choice to make.

Personally, I disagree with using F&F for something it wasn't intended for.

[Gregory of Sherwood Forest]

I agree entirely. I'd rather not use the F&F option, except when sending money to my niece occasionally.

[meackerman]

something doesn't sound right.

[BloomingtonMike]

I have been saved by paypal on a few major transactions on ebay. If the item is big money or suceptabel to damage in transit i will not pay via f&f. I would rather just cover the fees if needed. I have done f&f here though.

[Steve N]

Greg, you would be on my very short list of those who I would F$F to for a sale at Paypal. Paypal is still the only online site where I have been screwed so to speak, so I'm very leery of most transactions on there anyhow. You keep good company with Admiral, Richard (aka lilrichard), Ron Bontz, Jack (Timberwolf), Arlin, and the site via Bonley at the Christmas auction. There are 2 others but it's been a while, and I'm not remembering their names. Anyhow the point is, quality sellers who are also quality individuals, who through their actions I've come to see you guys as a non gamble situation. I'm not saying others aren't trustworthy. I'm saying I don't have experience with them as a seller.


Now a word about Paypal. They set it up to make it appear advantageous for you to lock in a banking account. All I can say about that is I don't see an advantage, and if you do, keep that account on a ZERO balance. Paypal is all about them making $$$$$$$$$$$$$, and they have absolutely no interest in your affairs, especially your financial affairs. You can use them all day long based solely on a credit card, where if the seller, and Paypal go South on you, you can cancel that transaction via your credit card. Truly the only way to shop securely via PayPal. I also suggest if you use a CC there, to have a CC that you ONLY use at PayPal, and no where else. In case a bomb drops, you know from where it fell.

[WaterlooMarc]

If someone is willing to spend the exte to cover the fees I see no rational reason why a seller would object. As you said, it make zero difference ones taxes. That's just a silly thought. But oh well.

I never bothered to look into why the fee structure was different. It makes sense that there's less protection. Threes no such thing as a free lunch.

[Cecil]

A key tip-off for me, regarding a person's honesty, is when they tell me "I want the ability to purger myself on a legal document and reduce the chances of getting caught."  I have almost completed an automobile sale a couple of times, when the seller suggest we fudge the tax documents.  My answer has been, "if you are willing to purger yourself and lie to the government, then what lies have you told me about the car?  The deal is off."

Just sayin, if they are not honest 100% of the time, then how can you tell when they are being honest.