blade angle for figured walnut?

[overland]

I was going to try to put a back-bevel on one of my No. 4 Stanleys to plane some crotch-figured walnut. What angle should I shoot for?

[hbmcc]

I think a total net angle of about 50 to 60 degrees. A steeper blade angle can produce a rougher surface than the standard 45 degrees. The majority of recommendations stress a very sharp blade and fine clearance (both vertical and horizontal--throat) over angle on the blade. I was able to work curly maple by pushing the chip breaker very close to the blade edge, under 1/32. I think a tight, fine grain wood like maple is also easier to shear than the more open grain of walnut. But you need a really sharp blade to do any of the work. Go sharp first.

[jgourlay]

All things being equal (such as frog angle) the biggest improvement you can make to your set up for difficult grain is with the chip breaker.  First, make certain that the leading knife edge of the chip breaker is absolutely flush/straight and touching the blade all the way across.  Second, you need to have the edge of the chipper breaker about 1/3 of a millimeter away from the cutting edge.  That's so close that I personally can't set it up without a magnifying glass. 

However the improvement these two steps make is absolutely astounding.  One can, without exaggeration, plane against the grain and still get an acceptable finish with this method.  What's beautiful is that today even average wood has areas of reversing or rising grain down the length of a board.  This changed my hand-planning life...

There is a fantastic video on youtube that is part of the out-put of a research effort on this topic in Japan.  The video is microscopic video of the chip being cut by a plane blade and the effect of the cap iron.  You'll immediately see and understand.  Search for: "Influence of the Cap-iron on Hand Plane"

[Admiral]

All things being equal (such as frog angle) the biggest improvement you can make to your set up for difficult grain is with the chip breaker.  First, make certain that the leading knife edge of the chip breaker is absolutely flush/straight and touching the blade all the way across.  Second, you need to have the edge of the chipper breaker about 1/3 of a millimeter away from the cutting edge.  That's so close that I personally can't set it up without a magnifying glass. 

However the improvement these two steps make is absolutely astounding.  One can, without exaggeration, plane against the grain and still get an acceptable finish with this method.  What's beautiful is that today even average wood has areas of reversing or rising grain down the length of a board.  This changed my hand-planning life...

There is a fantastic video on youtube that is part of the out-put of a research effort on this topic in Japan.  The video is microscopic video of the chip being cut by a plane blade and the effect of the cap iron.  You'll immediately see and understand.  Search for: "Influence of the Cap-iron on Hand Plane"

^^^This

I would add, however, that the chipbreaker must be tuned properly to lie perfectly mated with the back of the iron.  This is not generally an issue with new matched irons and chipbreakers nor with LV or LN or other premium planes, but is worth checking.  On vintage planes this is accomplished with some filing to correct gross imperfections, then stones or sandpaper on a flat surface.  It can also be done on a Tormek, which is how I do it.

[MannyBoy]

All things being equal (such as frog angle) the biggest improvement you can make to your set up for difficult grain is with the chip breaker.  First, make certain that the leading knife edge of the chip breaker is absolutely flush/straight and touching the blade all the way across.  Second, you need to have the edge of the chipper breaker about 1/3 of a millimeter away from the cutting edge.  That's so close that I personally can't set it up without a magnifying glass. 

However the improvement these two steps make is absolutely astounding.  One can, without exaggeration, plane against the grain and still get an acceptable finish with this method.  What's beautiful is that today even average wood has areas of reversing or rising grain down the length of a board.  This changed my hand-planning life...

There is a fantastic video on youtube that is part of the out-put of a research effort on this topic in Japan.  The video is microscopic video of the chip being cut by a plane blade and the effect of the cap iron.  You'll immediately see and understand.  Search for: "Influence of the Cap-iron on Hand Plane"

This is an eye opening video on how the planning process actually happens.  Really informative and truly fantastic as you said.

Am I correct that the conclusions of the study were that for the best planning result:
    1. Take a fine shaving (they did 0.05 mm I believe)
    2. Use a higher angle chip breaker (they tested 50 degrees to the planning surface, and 80 degrees which was better)
    3. Adjust the chip breaker leading edge 0.3 mm back from the blade leading edge.

I found it particularly interesting that they did most of the testing against the grain (it looked to me).  Also earlier in the video they did a with the grain and against grain with no chip breaker, big difference as we would expect.

Last, I have recently purchased some new Hock plane blades with Hock's chip breakers.  (I'm not sure what the chip breaker angle to the wood surface is for these sets.)  But, I can say I'm now very glad I did.  I didn't know how big of a difference these changes would make.

[Wilbur Pan]

This is an eye opening video on how the planning process actually happens.  Really informative and truly fantastic as you said.

Am I correct that the conclusions of the study were that for the best planning result:
    1. Take a fine shaving (they did 0.05 mm I believe)
    2. Use a higher angle chip breaker (they tested 50 degrees to the planning surface, and 80 degrees which was better)
    3. Adjust the chip breaker leading edge 0.3 mm back from the blade leading edge.

I found it particularly interesting that they did most of the testing against the grain (it looked to me).  Also earlier in the video they did a with the grain and against grain with no chip breaker, big difference as we would expect.

Last, I have recently purchased some new Hock plane blades with Hock's chip breakers.  (I'm not sure what the chip breaker angle to the wood surface is for these sets.)  But, I can say I'm now very glad I did.  I didn't know how big of a difference these changes would make.

I helped out with the translation of the video. My experience is that the measurements in the video should be taken as starting points, and not as absolutes. It is more important to get the chipbreaker close to the edge than to worry about the leading angle of the chipbreaker.

It should be kept in mind that in this video, the chipbreaker is being asked to perform under the worst circumstances possible: planing against the grain, with a mouth that is infinitely wide. In real life, for finish planing, we’re going to be planing with the grain as much as possible, using a plane that has a relatively narrow mouth opening.

This work flow works well for me in terms of reducing tearout when I run into trouble. In all cases, I’m using a plane with a fairly narrow mouth opening.

1. Resharpen my plane blade. Sharpness is a necessary condition for good results, and fixes a lot of problems.

2. Set my plane to take a thinner shaving.

3. Use a plane with a higher bed angle. (This may not be practical for everyone, but on the other hand, I only have one higher angle plane. If you’re going to get one, you only need one higher angle plane.)

4. Optimize conditions with the chipbreaker by moving it closer to the cutting edge.

The reason I save adjusting the chipbreaker for last is that of all of these maneuvers, adjusting the chipbreaker position is the most finicky for me. That may not be true for everyone.

[Adnick]

Keep the cap irons on my English type planes just as sharp as the blades, have done so ever since reading Graham Blackburn's book on "traditional woodworking handtools"" in which he presents the same type plane adjustments as the above mentioned YouTube video. I think the original version was printed in the mid 90s....
Graham also expresses his opinion that a properly set up smoother should plane with or against the grain equally well--it's a great book, highly recommend for any woodworker, but especially for traditional tool users.

My smoothing plane sharpness test, is the ability to cut arm hair by just pushing the blade through the hair, not dragging it against the skin like shaving.

On my Stanley type cap irons I keep them highly polished and ensure that the fit against the iron produces that desired curvilinear result?

Regards,
Andy

Mos Maiorum

[Adnick]

One more thing:

Most will already know this, but just in case....

If you use the ruler trick (back bevel) be aware that setting the cap iron close to the edge, if one does not allow for the bevel, can introduce issues with wood chip jams....

[HomerLee]

If all that has been said is true, and I do not question it, then I must be missing something. I have been experimenting with both bevel down and bevel up planes (which have no chip breaker), and I can not see that one is superior to the other on working figured wood. So how does the bevel up work so well given the need to so carefully set the breaker on a bevel down plane?

[overland]

One other thing: I have a devil of a time getting a Stanley chip breaker close to the edge. It's so fiddly. Whenever I tighten the screw that holds it, the chip breaker flexes--or simply slides--and ruins the adjustment. With my LN plane--different kind of chip breaker--I have no such problem.