Epoxy with a true 30 mu open time?

[rhino]

I used some DAP plastic Resin Glue to try and glue up a bookshelf I have been slowly making since early last summer.

I have used this brand before many times with good results. This time however I had a glue failure. I mixed the powder and water by weight to the gram measured on a scale. Glue up was involved but done in 20 min.

Next day I come in the shop to remove the clamps. The Cup with the remaining glue looks off. Glue had not dried. It was soft and springy, like really old pudding. A sample piece I had glued was pulled easily by hand.

I removed the clamps and disassembled the bookcase with a dead low hammer, with only one small injury that is out of sight.

I am cleaning the joints with sandpaper and various edge tools (crappy ones).

I will be calling DAP tomorrow to see what the deal is. Could have been temp but my shop is at 68 so doubtful.

To reglue I think I will need to use epoxy as the surfaces won't be completely clear of the failed glue and there will now be some gaps to fill. I don't need a ton of glue but do need some decent open time to ensure things are square and go back together.

I need a recommendation for an epoxy that will have a real 20-30 min open working time.

Thanks

Never had a glue failure before, and it sure is frustrating

[JGrout]

Stage building (glue a piece clamp it in place move on to the next part)  is far easier and you can accomplish the same thing using yellow glue doing so 

JMO but a few minutes cleaning joints with a chisel makes more sense; and then follow the above advice 

I am willing to bet your PRG failed due to temperature or it was old and picked up moisture along the way 


Joe

[rayknight]

Limited experience with powder based resin glues, but I understand there are real issues with shelf life.  Check your packaging for product specific shelf life policy.  If unclear, mix another batch and do a test joint.  Sorry for your experience, keep us informed. and let us know which specific product you have been using.  
Ray Knight

[JTTHECLOCKMAN]

To me the best epoxy on the market is SystemIII T88. More than 30 minutes so it needs to be clamped. I leave overnight.

[rhino]

Glue was about a year old and looked fresh - when I have had old DAP Weldwood in the past I could see darker grains in the powder mixed in with the lighter. Here it looked like the new powder and was kept in a dry location. Workshop is heated and the bookshelf was up higher so likely closer to 70 deg.

In any event I have now cleaned off most of the residue with chisel, planes and sandpaper. Epoxy may be a good option to ensure a gap filling function now that I have "gone at it" with the chisel etc. I prefer one large glue up so that I can adjust everything while it is all still setting, although I am a bit concerned that gravity may pull some of the epoxy out with a really long open time.

Will order some of the T 88 regardless and perhaps use a shorter setting epoxy for some of the joints. It will all be clamped regardless.

Thanks for the help. Very frustrating

[BaileyNo5]

I've had really good luck with West Systems.  They have a fast and slow hardener, so you can pick your poison.  Also heard good things about System III but never used it.  

West Systems

[rhino]

Called DAP today. They offered to refund me the $10 I spent on the product. Was told that it failed because it was past the 1 year date of manufacture. Sure wish they had a clear warning on their container. I have used other tubs before that looked new and we less than 1.5 years old without any issue. Was told I should throw away product more than a year past manufacture.
Not their issue, was mine for not following guidance in a technical service bulletin but not anywhere on the container. I'll be getting my refund (amazon has my receipt thank you very much) and will be moving on from DAP products.

The joy of cleaning all of the joints and re gluing the bookcase remain exclusively mine to enjoy. If they had bothered to put an expiration date, like they do with milk, I would have gladly purchased another tub with that knowledge. Too bad DAP has opted not to share some very basic info with their consumers.

Best part of course was that she would not send me a fresh container instead of a refund. I would have to buy my own and hope it is fresh decoding their imprints.

[rayknight]

Thanks for the followup.  Is there a code on the packaging for mfg date.  I had decided this is a buy for specific project product, that I don't keep on stock.  I had assumed there was expiration date on package, but i gather not.  Good luck with your emergency work around.  
Ray

[Yetloh]

UF glues ae very sensitive to atmospheric moisture.  It is good practice to divide them on receipt into smaller, properly airtight containers which you completely fill, thereby excluding air and the moisture it contains.  UF powdered glues will keep for a long time that way.  When making them up for use, be sure to leave the lid off only for so long as necessary to mix the glue to minimise exposure to atmospheric moisture.

Jim

[rhino]

There is a code on the tub. I ended up being a bit concerned about compatibility issues with the epoxy, so I ordered a tub of it for $10 on amazon again. If I am reading the manufacture code properly, this new to me tub was made on the 140th day of 2016. I'll use it because I want to get this project finished correctly, but kinda crazy that at this point the glue, per manufacturer specs, is only good for another 136 days. Gotta say that DAP's practices here seem a bit deceptive by not putting an expiration date on the tub. I had to do a bit if work to learn that well over half of the life of my product was left on a storage shelf before it got to me.

I will really have to want to use this product in the future to buy it again.