LN #3 with High Angle Frog?

[Strokes77]

I have it in my head that I would like my next plane purchase to be a LN #3 with a High Angle frog.

*I know I could back bevel an Iron, but I don't want to.

I have literally dozens of Stanley bench planes, and several LN's.  But I don't have a good #3.  I currently smooth with a LN 4, and whichever Stanley 4 or 4 1/2 I pickup.  There are times when I hit tricky grain, and don't feel like reaching around the side of my bench and grabbing the #80...

Does anyone have a #3 for High Angle smoothing purposes?  50 or 55?

[Rob Young]

Not a #3 but a #4 with 50* frog.

I still use my couple of vintage Stanley #4's with properly sharpened irons and close and tuned cap irons.  They work great. 

But by following the same "rules" of setup with the LN4-50HAF I can get fantastic surfaces with much less fiddling with finding the perfect cap iron set-back.  The extra 5* of frog angle just takes the fussiness out of the setup.  You still have to sharpen up and you should still set the cap iron whisker close to get good results.  Just not as difficult to make those settings since you have a bit more leaway.

I don't find a #3 comfortable to hold so I opted for a #4.

Full disclosure, I also enjoy using a LN164 with its blade sharpened at 50* for an effective 64* cutting angle.  But it can be tough going and the blade sharpness is short lived in this configuration which is a lot like scraping.  But since getting the #4HAF, I've used the LN164 very, very little.

Worst thing that happens is you get one and decide after a year you don't like it and sell it for 80% of what you paid.  A rental fee.

[bandsaw]

No. 3 is my most used plane - have a few Stanley's, a Lie Nielsen, and a Clifton. The Lie Nielsen is hard to hold as the handle is small. Favorite is the Clifton which is a little longer and therefore has a larger, comfortable handle.

[Strokes77]

I feel like the tote size is not a problem. I generally have a 2 finger grip,middle finger on adjuster wheel, 1st finger on side of the frog when using a 3...

Will I notice a performance boost in sketchy grain changes with the HAF?

[Rob Young]

I feel like the tote size is not a problem. I generally have a 2 finger grip,middle finger on adjuster wheel, 1st finger on side of the frog when using a 3...

Will I notice a performance boost in sketchy grain changes with the HAF?

Changing nothing else about your sharpening method and setting of the cap iron, yes you will see some improvement.  

If you can already set up a standard #4 (#3, whatever) with atom splitting sharp blades and a tuned and well set cap iron, you can already do most of what just a HAF by itself can add to the mix.  The HAF conceptually an "amplifier".

[JimReed@Tallahassee]

Not a bad idea. I have a LN 4 1/2 with a HAF. It does beautiful work but I take a beating. A #3 would be much easier to push.

[John Clifford]

A word about handle size. If you get the LN #3 with the high angle frog it would allow you to install a #4 size handle.


John

[Derek Cohen]

I have some experience with various permutations with the LN #3. I also have the LN #4 1/2, and went through similar experiences ...

I started with a #4 1/2 Anniversary with the 50 degree frog a good several years ago (when they were sold). This was swapped out to a 55 degree frog to control tearout. It did not do enough, was really hard to push, and the plane went onto a shelf.

About 5 years ago I purchased a LN #3 with a 55 degree frog (you'd think I would have learned from my first experience! ... well I love the #3 size). But it, too, did not control tearout enough, and went onto a shelf. The only advantage of the high angle frog was that I could add a #4 handle to the #3 plane, as the original is pretty small. I posted about this quite some time ago.

Planes below with 55 degree frogs ...



As the years past, I learned to use the chipbreaker to control tearout. I gained some confidence, and was able to use the #4 1/2 with its original 50 degree frog. The chipbreaker worked well. But the plane was still more effort to push than I liked - remember the blade is wide and the plane body is heavy. The frog was also dropped to 50 degrees in the #3 - again better performance with the chipbreaker, and because it was small it was usable. 

Still, the surface quality was not as good as a Stanley #3 with a 45 degree frog. So, finally the light dawned and I purchased a 45 degree frog for the #3, and traded the 55 degree from for a 45 for the #4 1/2. Now both planes are happy and willing workers.

The effect of returning the #3 to a 45 degree frog meant that the #4 handle required a modification to fit. Here you can see what was required to be removed (Oh yes, I found some nicer handles!) ..



This is how it fits (the #4 1/2 still has a 50 degree frog here, but you can see the difference in the last picture, where it has a 45 degree frog) ..



This is how they should work ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

[Strokes77]

Thanks for the write-up Derek.

[Strokes77]

Today I got to try the #3 with a 55* frog at a LN hand tool show.

I liked it very much, it is now on my "to get" list.  I did not notice much more resistance, and the shavings in strait grain cherry were very nice... of course...  they didn't have any awkward grain pieces available for me to try.