Painted Cabinet Finishing

[cams2705]

Hello all ... looking for a little advice here.

I'm building cabinets for my walk-in pantry, laundry room, and for the master and second bathrooms.  I decided to use 3/4" pre-finished maple ply for the boxes, but use soft maple for the face frames, doors/drawers, toe kicks, and side panel(s).  I thought about using poplar, but it's softness kind of scared me away and some research told me that a lot of cabinet makers step up to soft maple under paint for durability.

I was researching what finish to use over the pained surface and found so much conflicting information ... use acrylic, use latex, use enamel, use tinted pre-cat lacquer and answers that conflicts each and every one of these.  From what I've read, there are a lot of people who point toward Sherwood Williams products and one in particular, CAB Acrylic lacquer.  However after some research, it seems as though you can get it tinted in black or white and just a clear top coat ... but again, no real information as to what it can be applied over and if they can even tint the clear in the store to any color.  I printed the MSDS and info sheets last night and was going to take these to the commercial SW store today.

I also found they made a Sher-Wood Kem Aqua finish which is a waterborne pigmented top coat that is made to apply on wood and can be applied over pigmented lacquer.  I also printed these sheets and took them with me today.

In the commercial SW store near where I work, you'd swear I had three heads when I asked them about the product and knew nothing about it.  The store manager explained that SW has multiple business lines and the individual stores only specialize in their own products (i.e. residential/consumer, commercial, auto finishes, top coats (which includes lacquers))  He did some research for me and found that there was a store NW of Philly that carries it ... only in 5 gallon cans or in large drums.  looks like it is marketed to large scale operations only.

He was extremely helpful though.  He asked exactly what I planned using it for and I explained painted cabinets with a medium semi-gloss sheen and a durable top coat that would hold up in a bathroom environment.  He did recommend their "Pro Industrial Water based Alkyd Urethane Enamel" as a top coat, which can be tinted to any color that SW makes, over their Premium Wall and Wood latex primer tinted to a medium gray (I mentioned I would probably doing 1 set of cabinets in black, and the others in either a medium gray and/or sage green.  Between the primer and top coat, the cans ran from $42 - $50 a gallon.  He actually offered to give me the gallon of the tinted primer for free to give it a try.  I told him I had to get the final colors approved by the wife first, and I'd definitely be back to take him up on his offer.  He also gave me one of their master color chip books to take with me.

I think I may be leaning toward this only due to the ease of use and availability.  I don't want to mess with any solvent-based products as I don't have any place to spray them that is climate controlled right now.  I plan on spraying through my HVLP. 

Does anyone have any recommendations here?  Does this sound like a good route to go without having to experiment with a lot of combinations to find out what may or may not work.  Thanks in advance for any comments or tips.

[jteneyck]

You have hit upon a common problem for us hobbiest painters.  Many products that have the specs. we need are available on to pros, and/or only available in min. 5 gallon quantities.  I was not aware of the SW topcoat recommended to you, but it sounds a lot like BM's Advance paint.  I am familiar with their Premium Wall and Wood Primer.  It's very nice stuff, but you can't spray it through a gravity feed HVLP gun; it's far too viscous for that.  I also wonder about the recommended topcoat.  If it's anything like ProClassic (and excellent product, BTW) it won't spray with a gravity feed HVLP gun without major thinning.  

If you haven't already done so, get the product data sheet and check the viscosity of the topcoat.  Anything over the equivalent of about 100 sec #4 Ford cup is going to require thinning for a gravity feed gun.  I bought a pressure feed HVLP gun just so I could spray paint products.  I can spray BM Advance (500 seconds, and the same on paper as ProClassic) w/o thinning. 

Both Target Coatings and GF make a white poly topcoat.  Both products can be tinted to nearly any color desired.  I've used the GF Enduro White Poly (only comes in satin) and it sprays  beautifully with my gun.  It has a viscosity of 100 seconds so it should be possible to spray it with a gravity feed HVLP gun (I'm assuming that's what you have) if you have a 2.0 or 2.5 mm N/N set.  The Target Coatings product has a much lower viscosity, around 35 seconds IIRC, and you can spray it with a standard gravity feed gun if I'm right. 

For primer, I use BIN pigmented shellac primer.  It works under pretty much any paint.  It has a viscosity of only 35 seconds so it will spray well with nearly any gun.  It dries in a few minutes, sands to powder in less than an hour, and only costs about $40/gallon.  It can be tinted to any color you want, too. 

Hope this helps. 

There's also this product that someone here talked about recently:  PPG Breakthrough

It's is supposed to be very good.  I don't know the specs., availability, etc., however.  

John

[cams2705]

I have a pressure fed HVLP ... Earlex 5500.

The viscosity on the product is measured by POISE and is a min/max of 12-22.  The Earlex used a Ford #4 cup with a 160 maximum.  The Poise rating converts to a Ford #4 of 260-540.  You're right in that it is too thick to spray as-is and I planned on thinning by 10-15%.  The data sheet does list water a the reducer for the product.  I don't care if I have to spray multiple coats to achieve the proper coverage coverage.

If it turns out that I cannot spray it, The application method on the sheets list brushing.  I'm just trying to avoid the brushstrokes ... although according to multiple episodes of This Old House, that's the "IN" thing right now.

[Rob Young]

I have a pressure fed HVLP ... Earlex 5500.

The viscosity on the product is measured by POISE and is a min/max of 12-22.  The Earlex used a Ford #4 cup with a 160 maximum.  The Poise rating converts to a Ford #4 of 260-540.  You're right in that it is too thick to spray as-is and I planned on thinning by 10-15%.  The data sheet does list water a the reducer for the product.  I don't care if I have to spray multiple coats to achieve the proper coverage coverage.

If it turns out that I cannot spray it, The application method on the sheets list brushing.  I'm just trying to avoid the brushstrokes ... although according to multiple episodes of This Old House, that's the "IN" thing right now.

Long term, brush strokes will not be "in". Spray if you can.

[jteneyck]

I've read where people are able to spray BM Advance with an Earlex and the 2.0 mm N/N.  Advance has a viscosity of about 500 seconds when converted to #4 Ford cup, so there's a good chance you will be able to spray the SW's product w/o much thinning.  That looks like an interesting product from the data sheets, too, as do some of the others in that product line.  There's a catalyzed exterior poly that looks like it would make an excellent exterior varnish, though it's available only in gloss.  

John

[cams2705]

I think for thinning, I will start with 10% with half water and half Floetrol and see how it goes.

[Cooler]

There was a discussion on PPG's "Breakthrough", which has the advantage of very quick cure times.

https://forums.woodnet.net/showthread.php?tid=7326490