New kitchen floor

[jteneyck]

After 20 years the ceramic tile on our kitchen floor has many cracks and chips, and the grout has been a b tch to try to keep clean.  After lots of consideration we decided on solid bamboo.  Not my preferred choice, but the available options get limited in a hurry when you want to put wood over radiant heat.  So here's what it looked like before I tore it out.



About 217 ft. sq. between the kitchen floor and adjacent 1/2 bath.  First step was getting the tile up.  All day on my hands and knees was not my idea of a good day, so I bought a large pneumatic scraper from HF.  You have to have a pretty large compressor to drive the thing, 10 CFM.  Fortunately, I do.  For most of the tile this thing was the bomb; they popped right off and generally as one piece. 



I had all the tile out in maybe 2 hours.  Now the harder part; taking up the underlayment.  Removing the bulk of it wasn't bad.  I cut it with a circular saw set to the 7/16" thickness of the underlayment in squares about 30 x 30 inches.  I pried up the first piece with a small crowbar.  Fortunately most all the staples came up with it. The rest of the squares I pried up with a roofing shingle spade.  Awesomely effective.



That didn't take very long either, but now I was faced with cutting the underlayment flush with the cabinet bases at the back of the toe kick.  My first approach was to use an oscillating multi tool.  Worthless.  OK, now what?  I went to my local ACE hardware to look at my options, and found a little 3-3/8" carbide tipped circular saw blade.  OK, this has possibilities, but now I need an arbor for it.  So I bought a 4" long 3/8" hex head bolt.   Back at the ranch, I ground the head of the bolt until it just fit through the arbor hole, then made a little fixture to hold the bolt and blade so I could weld them together.  I tried to be careful about putting too much heat into it, but the blade still warped.  Oh well, at least it spun pretty true on the centerline of the arbor.  OK, I now needed a way to limit the depth of cut to 1/2" so I cut some 2-3/8" plywood discs with an adjustable circle cutter and then bored the center holes out to 3/8".  The little saw/arbor chucked into my 18V drill and looked like this. 



It took a little getting used to, but once I got the cut started it worked very well. 



With care, I could even cut around the radiused ends of the cabinet bases.  I made a few relief cut out to daylight, too, to make prying it up easier.  But as you can see, it came out very nice.



I got all 40 ft or so cut in an hour or so, and turned what I thought was going to be a very difficult job into almost fun.  A couple more things to do before I can put down the new underlayment but I'll soon be going in the right direction.  

I don't know if there is a commercial tool made to do this (Proxxon, perhaps), but if there isn't and you are ever faced with a similar challenge, you saw it here first!

John

[Robert Adams]

Hf sells a tool that does that. I have used multi tools to do it but not for huge amounts. Have cut a decent amount of 5/8 doug fir ply with it and no problems, its all technique. 

     I am about to finally tile our kitchen floor. I don't like tile either as its a royal pain to keep clean. Cant afford epoxy grout... I won't be cutting out the existing floor as its 5/8 doug fir ply over 1 1/8 doug fir tongue and groove on 45*. 

      Good luck on the bamboo. A friend did his 1st floor in it in chicago and it looked good and was more durable than regular wood flooring.

         Forgot to add... It sure is nice when the previous installer just nailed down the backer board and didn't skim coat it with thinset first. If it had been installed to modern standards it would have been a real bear to remove.

[jteneyck]

Which HF tool?  I looked for one but didn't see anything that would flush cut and had a saw blade.

John

By golly, you are right.  Oh well, I saved some money.  This thing looks like it would do a great job though.  HF Toe Kick Saw        

John

[Robert Adams]

Which HF tool?  I looked for one but didn't see anything that would flush cut and had a saw blade.

John

By golly, you are right.  Oh well, I saved some money.  This thing looks like it would do a great job though.  HF Toe Kick Saw        

John

Thats it but imo your method works fine. I would have no problem using it but would probably prefer a corded drill though corded drills have no brake for some reason so cordless is a little safer.

[Bob10]

Hey if you haven't bought the bamboo already get a sample and cut it a few times also get it wet a bit.  I installed a about 650' of it and will never use it again.  The splinters are like metal slivers and even after opening all the packages for over a month in the space to acclimate the movement was huge.  I left the advised gaps on the perimeter but once the rain started the floor buckled to the point one board was about 1 1/2" raised.  I had to pull the baseboards and cut the edge again.  Bamboo is a grass so any changes in moisture make it swell considerably more than wood.  I am looking at the new tile that looks like wood for the next kitchen I have to do.





Here is a page full of the wood grain tile I would use a grout that would match the tile


https://www.msistone.com/inspiration/wood-look-tile/

[Bob10]

I just had another thought about the Bamboo if you go that way buy at least one box more in the off chance the dishwasher or sink leaks

[jteneyck]

Hi Bob.  The bamboo has been sitting, stickered, in a spare bedroom for over a month now so there's no turning back.  The humidity is about 60 - 65% in the house now, so it ought to be swollen about as much as it's going to.  The AC will be on soon and the humidity won't be going higher then.  Seems like about the optimum time to install it.  I don't know what brand of bamboo you used, but I'm using Cali Bamboo.  It's solid wood, or as you call it, grass, and is coated on all sides so moisture exchange is going to be pretty slow.  I haven't checked what the MC actually is in the wood, but will before I install it and plan accordingly.  

I would have gone with an engineered wood floor if we had been able to find something we liked.  I couldn't find a simple, smooth, plain grained, consistent gray for nothing.  Everyone wants scraped or otherwise distressed flooring these days and that's not what we wanted.  I even toyed with the idea of making my own engineered flooring, but decided it was more work than I wanted to invest in it, and figure the factory finishes are likely more durable than what I have available to me.

People told me how awful Ipe' was to work with, and the splinters do hurt, but it otherwise wasn't bad.  Hopefully, the bamboo will be no worse, but I'll just deal with it as it comes.  

I'm using a floating installation because of the radiant heat.  I still need to install a tempering valve before next Fall to make sure the temp. stays below 85 F.  If the floor has problems I'll be able to repair it or even rip it out and replace it w/o a lot of effort.  But five years from now I hope I'm telling you how great it's been. 

John

Oh yeah, I did buy an extra box - just in case.

[Bill Wilson]

I put solid bamboo flooring down in my daughter's kitchen & dining room a couple years ago. I don't recall any trouble with splinters, but the stuff was hard as flint.  It was nailed down.  No issues with expansion/contraction.

[Bob10]

well personally I love Ipe and have used it as often as makes sense because it is pretty much bullet proof.  I suggest you wait until you have had the bamboo installed a few months before putting in base boards in case you have a problem similar to the one I experienced.  I cut the drywall for added room to move in addition to cutting the flooring down

[jteneyck]

That's a good idea Bob; I'll do that.  And when my wife asks why I haven't put the trim back on I'll have a good reason.  Also, it will let me keep track of how much the floor actually moves over time.  

John