Hollows and Rounds

[Dave Diaman]

I have needed a set of hollow and round planes for a long time. I have tried ordering a few antique ones on auction sites and had bad luck. I have come to the conclusion that there are two ways to buy antique molding planes. Either I need know the person selling them to me and trust they are not selling me junk or be able to touch what I am buying. I have had zero luck finding anything around here so I am looking at the Japanese hollow and round sets on fleabay. I have two from Lee Valley and they work well. I wanted to see if anyone has any experience with the sets on EBay. $150 for a full set of hollows and rounds is a great deal if they are functional. If nothing else they will hold me over until I can piece together an antique set. Of course if they are junk I would be better to just pony up the $300 for a set from Lee Valley. I would prefer to give my business to Lee Valley but I can think of quite a few other things I would like to get from Lee Valley with the $150 difference.

Here is the set in question.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12pcs-different-...Swa-dWi2S0

[wmickley]

The Lee Valley set is not designed for 18th century mouldings and is inadequate for the task. As an example, the lack of a good corner on the hollow planes means you cannot do a simple ovolo.

[Hank Knight]

Dave,

Jim Bode antique tools (http://www.jimbodetools.com) publishes a daily tool list of new stuff for sale. They frequently have hollows and rounds for sale - either matched sets or harlequin (unmatched) sets. Their prices are a little high, but the selection is good and they have stuff you don't ordinarily find on the market - like sets of hollows and rounds. I bought a harlequin half set from Bode several years ago had have been very satisfied with them.

Hank

[barryvabeach]

Dave,  I bought a set years ago, despite reading a lot of advice that I did not need a full set  ( which is actually called a half set) .  So feel free to ignore the advice, as I did, but a better plan is to focus on buying H & R's in just a few common sizes.  While the numbering systems differ ,  the size of the iron can be used as a constant  ( one maker may call a plane a No 2, and the iron is 1/4 wide ,  yet another maker may call the same size plane a 1 or a 4 ,   https://user.xmission.com/~jry/ww/tools/...rounds.htm   so long as you buy at least one pair at a time, from the same maker ideally, the pair will match.


My half set is all from the same maker, and includes 9 pair of planes.  At most I use 4 , the larger 5 never see any use.   Draw profiles of a few moldings that you may want to make, and you will get a good idea of what sizes you will need.   The ebay set you linked to will not be the equivalent of a classic H & R,  they have depth stops on the outer edges.  Also,  i don't think the narrow ones will be narrow enough to be of much use, and the large ones are far too large.   BTW,  I also made myself a pair using the Todd Herrli video,  http://www.alpdvdsales.com/home/classic-plane-making

 and it was quite simple to make one pair, though 8 planes would be quite a bit of work.   I would send an email to Sanford Moss and ask whether he can find you a few pairs of H & R's.    I don't see any on his site now,  but when I was looking for a pair of snipes bill planes,  he got them to me for a great price, and in terms of trust, he sent them to me before I paid  on the premise that I would pay once I got them and approved them.  His website is http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm#WOOD

[Rob Young]

Dave,

Jim Bode antique tools (http://www.jimbodetools.com) publishes a daily tool list of new stuff for sale. They frequently have hollows and rounds for sale - either matched sets or harlequin (unmatched) sets. Their prices are a little high, but the selection is good and they have stuff you don't ordinarily find on the market - like sets of hollows and rounds. I bought a harlequin half set from Bode several years ago had have been very satisfied with them.

Hank

+1 happy with mine and really should use them more. Half set of even #. Harlequin set but all skewed blades and pairs match.

The aforementioned Japanese style can't easily or possibly at all make complex full profiles as William says.

[JQuacker]

Dave,

I buy/restore & conserve/sell moulding planes. While I'm certainly not as established as others, I have several happy customers (and zero unhappy ones, but how can I prove that haha). You can see my page here  and I've got a long write up on Reddit's /r/handtools here about using them, if it helps my credibility any. I'm also an admin over at Facebook's Antique Tools Buy Sell Trade group, and the Unplugged Woodworkers group.

Barry is right that the numbering system is wonky, so I give actual iron dimension (seen below). And like chisels, they're often in the "you only need a few sizes" category. How often does someone with a 12-chisel set reach for the 7/8" vs. the 3/4"? But for those who like having a little bit of everything, a full (half) set is nice. Most users don't need that. 

Note if you want same-maker & match multi-plane sets, that's generally going to be in the $400+ range, often north of $600. 

I recently took stock of my hollows/rounds, and here's a list. Most are orphan ones, not a like-maker. There are two 5/8 ones that are a match. The Untouched ones you could get as-is, or I generally do "commission" work and restore/conserve/sharpen based on request. If you have any questions about my conservation process or world view, feel free to ask here or via PM.


Currently Cleaned:

5/8" hollow, nearly done (clean & waxed, just needs a sharpen)

Untouched:

~1/8" hollow
~1/4" round
1/2" round
~5/8" round (match with below)
~ 5/8" hollow (match with above, some toe damage)
3/4" hollow (shallow)
3/4" round
1" round
1" skewed hollow
1" hollow x2
1 1/4" Round
1 1/4" hollow

[Wilbur Pan]

+1 happy with mine and really should use them more. Half set of even #. Harlequin set but all skewed blades and pairs match.

The aforementioned Japanese style can't easily or possibly at all make complex full profiles as William says.

That may be true for those planes out of the box, but it should be a relatively easy thing to do to modify the sides of those planes so that they could do that task. Whether you want to go through that trouble is a different thing.

In the time that I've been using Japanese planes, I've come to the conclusion that there is a Japanese plane that is the equivalent of pretty much every western plane out there, with the exception of hollows and rounds. But that's not really a failing of Japanese toolmakers. The reason that Japanese hollows and rounds don't exist is that the sorts of 18th century moldings that you would make with those planes don't exist in the Japanese aesthetic (and more widely, the Asian aesthetic). There's no reason to develop a tool to make a decorative element that you're never going to use.

Japanese hollows and rounds are designed to make shapes that are more cylindrical in nature, and for those tasks, they excel.

And just to show that there's always something new under the sun, here are some modern Japanese planes that you can use to make ogees all day long. http://japantool-iida.com/plane_others/2...plane.html

[GeorgeV]

You don't need a full set. The best thing you can do is check out Matt Bickford's advise. He is the go to guru regarding H&Rs. His Book "Mouldings In Practice" is must reading.

[Rob Young]

The reason that Japanese hollows and rounds don't exist is that the sorts of 18th century moldings that you would make with those planes don't exist in the Japanese aesthetic (and more widely, the Asian aesthetic). 

Seems reasonable.

And while I've only briefly examined the LV planes in question with the idea of modifying them, I don't believe they can be modified to "work" the same sort of mouldings as H&Rs are designed to do.  The LV booth at a woodworking show had some one time.  Interesting but doubt they are worth the effort to change.

[Dave Diaman]

JQuacker, if you get a chance shoot me a pm or an email and let me know what you want for the 5/8, 3/4, 1, and 1 1/4 sets you have. A perfect match isn't necessary for me but as close as possible would be nice. I'm not worried about them being pretty. They just need to be functional.