matching stains

[Arenablance]

So, if you are a hobbyist woodworker and you retire from regular work, it is only a matter of time before someone (usually relatives) ask you for a “favor.” Thus, I have been asked to refinish a hope chest that was made in 1946. It is frame and panel construction and looks like it was made with 1/4” pine plywood which was subsequently stained and then some sort of finish was applied.


This is an antique only if antiques are anything over 50 years old, but it has sentimental value to some of the family as it was made for their mother. The chest has been in storage but there is water damage on the top panel. The damage isn't severe as there doesn't appear to be any delamination albeit there is discoloration of the finish and the wood.


My current plan is:

• test the finish to see if it was shellac or varnish
  
• sand the top to remove discoloration
  
• fill any cracks
  
• restain the top to match
  
• apply a new coat of either shellac or varnish.
  

However, I have never tried matching an old finish before. So I have lots of questions. I am thinking of applying various test stains to some pine plywood scraps before they get applied to the chest. Can I mix stains from different manufacturers to get the best match? I also have some wood dyes – would I be better off trying to match a dye instead of a stain? Should I apply the stain and then shellac or should I try to tint the shellac?


Anything else that I am missing?

[Rob Young]

So, if you are a hobbyist woodworker and you retire from regular work, it is only a matter of time before someone (usually relatives) ask you for a “favor.” Thus, I have been asked to refinish a hope chest that was made in 1946. It is frame and panel construction and looks like it was made with 1/4” pine plywood which was subsequently stained and then some sort of finish was applied.


This is an antique only if antiques are anything over 50 years old, but it has sentimental value to some of the family as it was made for their mother. The chest has been in storage but there is water damage on the top panel. The damage isn't severe as there doesn't appear to be any delamination albeit there is discoloration of the finish and the wood.


My current plan is:

• test the finish to see if it was shellac or varnish
  
• sand the top to remove discoloration
  
• fill any cracks
  
• restain the top to match
  
• apply a new coat of either shellac or varnish.
  

However, I have never tried matching an old finish before. So I have lots of questions. I am thinking of applying various test stains to some pine plywood scraps before they get applied to the chest. Can I mix stains from different manufacturers to get the best match? I also have some wood dyes – would I be better off trying to match a dye instead of a stain? Should I apply the stain and then shellac or should I try to tint the shellac?


Anything else that I am missing?

Yes, you can mix stains from different manufacturers.  But keep it "oil to oil" or "water to water" for obvious reasons.

You can make up your own stains by buying the base (or make one) and adding pigments.  Only did this once and frankly I'd rather buy something pre-made and doctor it up.

Testing on similar woods is a good idea but you may get different absorption rates due to age and possibly other stuff on the old piece.  Don't forget to include a topcoat in your test piece as it can shift the color.

One time while browsing Amazon, it popped up a finisher's color wheel made by Mohawk I think.  Clever gadget, you find the color you have and it shows you what to add (more red, more brown, etc) to reach another color.  Or you can use it backwards to go from finished color to "ingredients" but not ratios.  That still requires experimenting.  It was cheap, maybe $10.

And finally, the very best advice I was given was to work light to dark.  Start with something you know is going to be a touch on the light side and work up to the final color.  Easier than going the other way (DAMHIKT)!

[Cooler]

To match a stain a while back I had to mix oil based stains (Minwax stuff) and then apply a gel stain on top.  The match was very good at that point; nothing else seemed to work.

A longer time back I used oil based stains (on poplar) and top coated it with a tinted top coat (Minwax Polyshade).  The addition of one coat of Polyshades matched the color, and the next two coats were clear.

The point I'm making is, "use whatever works".  Matching colors is not an easy thing.  Plan on at least one to two hours (if you have all the ingredients in house). 

The gel stain is nice because you can make it lighter as required by simply wiping off more of the stuff.  (Mostly I don't use gel stains because wear shows up as unfinished wood,  whereas a penetrating stain will retain the color.)

[Arenablance]

Thanks for the advise.  I'll definitely try to get a color wheel.

[jteneyck]

So, if you are a hobbyist woodworker and you retire from regular work, it is only a matter of time before someone (usually relatives) ask you for a “favor.” Thus, I have been asked to refinish a hope chest that was made in 1946. It is frame and panel construction and looks like it was made with 1/4” pine plywood which was subsequently stained and then some sort of finish was applied.


This is an antique only if antiques are anything over 50 years old, but it has sentimental value to some of the family as it was made for their mother. The chest has been in storage but there is water damage on the top panel. The damage isn't severe as there doesn't appear to be any delamination albeit there is discoloration of the finish and the wood.


My current plan is:

• test the finish to see if it was shellac or varnish
  
• sand the top to remove discoloration
  
• fill any cracks
  
• restain the top to match
  
• apply a new coat of either shellac or varnish.
  

However, I have never tried matching an old finish before. So I have lots of questions. I am thinking of applying various test stains to some pine plywood scraps before they get applied to the chest. Can I mix stains from different manufacturers to get the best match? I also have some wood dyes – would I be better off trying to match a dye instead of a stain? Should I apply the stain and then shellac or should I try to tint the shellac?


Anything else that I am missing?

My advise is to avoid sanding unless nothing else works.  If you strip the chest with something like KleanStrip Premium it will remove the finish, any stain, and maybe the discoloration you described.  If the discoloration is still there then I would apply a solution of oxalic acid to see if that removes it.  Then a gentle hand sanding with 325 or 400 grit should be all that's required to get it ready to refinish.  If the piece is made with plywood sanding is to be done with great care or you'll be in for a lot more work than you wanted.  

Are you sure it was stained?  Many old pieces were just clear coated with shellac or varnish but after 50 years they accumulate enough dirt and aging to the finish that they look like they were stained.  I'm not saying not to stain it, but I wouldn't unless you absolutely have to match the current color and/or the underlying wood is butt ugly.  Color matching is not hard, but it's not all that easy either.  I recently ended up making at least 3 dozens test specimens to match an existing piece. That ate up a good deal of the profit right there. 

There are lots of ways to go about color matching.  The right way is based on how the original was done.  Often, commercial furniture is first sprayed with a dye, then sealed, then a stain is applied, more sealer, and then a toner, and finally the topcoats.  How many of those steps you need to do can only be assessed by examining the piece. 

Got any photos?

John

[Arenablance]

My advise is to avoid sanding unless nothing else works.  If you strip the chest with something like KleanStrip Premium it will remove the finish, any stain, and maybe the discoloration you described.  If the discoloration is still there then I would apply a solution of oxalic acid to see if that removes it.  Then a gentle hand sanding with 325 or 400 grit should be all that's required to get it ready to refinish.  If the piece is made with plywood sanding is to be done with great care or you'll be in for a lot more work than you wanted.  

Are you sure it was stained?  Many old pieces were just clear coated with shellac or varnish but after 50 years they accumulate enough dirt and aging to the finish that they look like they were stained.  I'm not saying not to stain it, but I wouldn't unless you absolutely have to match the current color and/or the underlying wood is butt ugly.  Color matching is not hard, but it's not all that easy either.  I recently ended up making at least 3 dozens test specimens to match an existing piece. That ate up a good deal of the profit right there. 

There are lots of ways to go about color matching.  The right way is based on how the original was done.  Often, commercial furniture is first sprayed with a dye, then sealed, then a stain is applied, more sealer, and then a toner, and finally the topcoats.  How many of those steps you need to do can only be assessed by examining the piece. 

Got any photos?

John

I don't have any photos as we are currently avoiding the heat of southern New Mexico by camping.  However, the project awaits and I'm anxious to get back to my tools (or toys as the LOML calls them).  I didn't mention that the chest is not a commercial piece nor did I mention that the first thing I am going to do is try to clean the chest with a mild solution of Simple Green.