An Exterior Door with Lites - Part 2

[jteneyck]

Here's a link to Part 1

Finishing the door panels turned into a long and frustrating experience.  This was my first time trying Target Coatings.  I used their EM-9300 exterior varnish and it was nothing short of a disaster.  There were bubbles large and small in the hundreds per sq. ft., some agglomerates, and the finish bridged around the pores of the sealed white oak.  Shame on me for not making a test panel with it first.  The bubbles and agglomerates were still there when I put some of the finish on a clean piece of glass and drew it out into a film using a new razor blade.  Jeff Weiss at TC personally called me after I left a message, refunded my money, and offered to replace the product for free.  I asked for a gallon of EM-6000 instead as I doubt I'll ever try EM-9300 again.  I sent the unused portion of the gallon back to TC hoping that might help them identify the root of the problem.  So I give Jeff credit for making it right but I lost more than a week getting back on track.  The resolution was to completely strip the panels and start over.  This time I used General Finishes Exterior 450 and had no troubles at all. 

After the panels had cured a couple of days I sealed the edges with an acrylic caulk, wiped on with my finger, to protect those edges should any water get between the panels and frame.  With that done, I glued up the door.  I used T-88 Structural Epoxy.  It has an open time of about an hour so the glue up is stress free.  I used an acid brush to apply the glue.  The amount of glue used from those bottles has glued up two doors. I think I paid about $24 for the glue, so it cost about $4/door, pretty cheap compared to most of the other materials and components it takes to make a house door. 





You might remember me asking about buying some more parallel jaw clamps.  Turns out I didn't need any, I just needed a small change in my approach.  Instead of gluing up the door flat on my bench or vertically, I made two 9" tall spacers to lift the door off my bench.  They give me plenty of room to get under the door to wipe off glue squeeze out and make it easy to add clamps to the bottom.  Amazing how such a simple change improved the process. 

I started by gluing up the two center mullions to the top and bottom rails, making sure to install the middle panel as I did so. 



Before installing the panels, I ran a bead of silicone caulking around the center of their edges.  That should stop any drafts from getting through.  Next I added the two outer panels, glued up the stiles, and added clamps top and bottom.  It doesn't take much force to pull the joints tight because the epoxy acts like a lubricant before it begins to set up.  What little squeeze out I had was easily cleaned up with lacquer thinner.  



The tempered glass came in today so fitting that is up soon. 

John

[atgcpaul]

John, is there any dye on that panel or is it just the GF? I really like GF. I pretty much just use a foam brush with it because prepping the shot to use the HVLP is a chore.

Why did you try the TC instead of GF which you've used a lot in the past?

Paul

[Phil Thien]

John, is there any dye on that panel or is it just the GF?  I really like GF.  I pretty much just use a foam brush with it because prepping the shot to use the HVLP is a chore.

Why did you try the TC instead of GF which you've used a lot in the past?

Paul

Excellent Q's.

[jteneyck]

John, is there any dye on that panel or is it just the GF?  I really like GF.  I pretty much just use a foam brush with it because prepping the shot to use the HVLP is a chore.

Why did you try the TC instead of GF which you've used a lot in the past?

Paul

Hi Paul,

I tried the TC product mostly just because, but also because a pro I respect on another site said it performed well for him. I have to believe it typically is a good product, because if what I got is normal no one would ever buy it a second time. 

In full disclosure the GF Exterior 450 is not w/o its issue, too.  I bought the satin sheen.  It had cured 3 days when I glued up the door.  I got a little silicone caulk on one panel and wiped it off with a blue paper towel with a little mineral spirits on it.  When it dried I noticed it looked different.  Closer inspection showed the area I had wiped was more of a semi gloss than satin, and it's still that way today.  If I can't buff it back down to satin, which I put the odds at well less than 50%, then I'll probably spray the panels again when I spray the last coat on the rest of the door.  FWIW, the TC product dried harder than the GF and can be used on exterior and interior projects while the GF can only be used for exterior projects, at least that's what GF says.  I had used the TC product on both side of the panels, but when I changed to the GF Exterior 450 on the outside I had to use something different on the inside.  I went with my favorite all round spray product, Enduro Clear Poly.  

The oak panels are stained with SW's BAC wiping stain, then a sprayed coat of Sealcoat shellac to seal it in, then the GF Exterior 450. If you use much stain you should look at the BAC Wiping Stains.  They really are a dye stain, meaning they have both dyes and pigment stains in them.  They go on beautifully with a foam brush and wipe off easily leaving deep, uniform color.  They come in quite a few stock colors, but SW's will tint them further to any color you need.  I used a stock color, can't quite remember which but can check.  They are made with pretty fast drying solvents and you can move on in a couple of hours.  The BAC Wiping Stains are not specifically rated for exterior use, but I think it will be OK under the Exterior 450, and behind a storm door on a covered porch with only a little direct sun on the lower portion of the door. Time will tell.

The other side of the door is white ash.  I really struggled getting it to look like the the pine trim in the house.  No kidding, right.  I have test samples all over my shop.  I finally settled on filling the grain with Crystalac WB grain filler, then spraying two different shellac toners, then the Enduro Clear Poly.  This was the first time I've used the Crystalac  grain filler and it was super easy to use.  It's easy to apply, dries very quickly, and seemed to fill the grain quite well. 

If you've never seen my spray "booth" I'd be happy to show a couple of photos.  It's just plastic sheeting hung from the ceiling joists, and Kraft paper on the floor, with the fan of my DC serving as the exhaust fan.  It takes less than 10 minutes to set up or take down.  I know some folks say doors should only have a brush applied finish but I prefer the uniformity of a sprayed finish.  And there is no better or even equal option for applying toners.  

John

[rudedan60]

I have enjoyed your two threads on this.  You do excellent work.  I would be interested in seeing your spray booth.  I have shrunk my shop, and trying to fit in the utility portion of my basement. I would also appreciate any advice on fitting the door into the frame.  Dan

[jteneyck]

I have enjoyed your two threads on this.  You do excellent work.  I would be interested in seeing your spray booth.  I have shrunk my shop, and trying to fit in the utility portion of my basement. I would also appreciate any advice on fitting the door into the frame.  IDan

Thanks for the kind words.  I can't find the photos I was looking for, but these give you a general idea of how I go about creating a temporary, ventilated, spray booth. 

I hang 6 mil poly from nails in the ceiling joists.  The foot print is about 6' x 8', although I can flex it larger if needed.  



On the floor I roll out Kraft paper.  There are two 4' shop lights above and I can set up more at the front when needed.  You can't have too much light.  The hose you see at the back of the both goes to the fan of my DC.  In this version I bypassed the cyclone and bags. 



Since this photo was taken I did away with the bags, so now the air from the spray booth goes through the cyclone, then the fan, and then directly out the window.  I only use shellac and WB finishes and have never found any build up in the cyclone or fan.  I do get some white or colored powder outside, just like I get really fine sawdust from milling and sanding operations, but it doesn't stick to anything. 

Large pieces go onto a rolling cart ($15 at HF).



Smaller pieces sit on a lazy Susan on top of saw horses.



And sometimes you just have to stand a piece in there as best you can.



I throw the Kraft paper out when it gets ratty, usually after 3 or 4 projects, and the plastic when the same happens with it, although that usually takes a couple of years.  In between spray sessions, I fold it up and store it on a shelf.  The total time to set up/take down the "booth" is less than 10 minutes. 

It's not hard to set up an area in your shop to spray.  The key is you need to have ventilation to spray indoors, even with shellac and WB products, and that means you also need a source of make up air.  You also need ventilation to carry away the over spray so it doesn't land back on your work and make it feel rough.  I open a widow at the other end of my shop for make up air.  I live where it gets pretty cold in the Winter, but have never had any issues with temperature.  I do have heat in my basement shop, however, so what little temp. I lose during a spray session is quickly recovered.   I don't get anal about clean up.  I vacuum up before spraying and then spray without waiting for any residual dust to settle.  I have no filters on the exhaust air nor make up air.  If I lived in a really dusty location, however, I would install a filter in the window where the make up comes in. 

I hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions.  

John

[rudedan60]

John,
Thanks for the reply.  This should work in my basement shop, since I actually have a window to vent out. Dan

[Stwood_]

Sounds like yer trying to kill yourself by using multiple sealers/stains/finishes on one project, then switching to something different on the next project.
Wouldn't it be less frustrating to stay with what you've had good luck with? Like the GF products?

[jteneyck]

Sounds like yer trying to kill yourself by using multiple sealers/stains/finishes on one project, then switching to something different on the next project.
Wouldn't it be less frustrating to stay with what you've had good luck with? Like the GF products?

I do what I have to to match the color of an existing finish.  In this case, I have to match the interior trim work in the house.  I suggested to the owner that a different hue might look better but he wants it to all look the same.  Customers are funny that way.  The same was true on the last door project and I'm using a similar process that I did with that.   The best way I've found to replicate the color of aged varnish is by using toners to get the color where you need it and then apply a sealer, if needed, then the clear coats.  I don't know of a simpler way.  So for this project I'm using two toners and the top coat.  I could have used one toner if I had gotten the color right on the first one, but I needed to shift it to match better.  Even now I'm pretty sure the color match won't be perfect, but it's as close as I  can justify spending time on to get.   The outside of the door is stain, sealer, clear coats.  A pretty typical recipe using a stock stain.  

I generally like GF's products, but not all of them.  I'll leave out the ones I dislike; the ones I really like are Arm-R-Seal, EnduroVar (though it's not the easiest to spray), Enduro Clear Poly (my favorite), and High Performance Poly (as long as it's not going to require chemical durability).  None of those are rated for exterior use so I needed to decide on a new product.  I tried TC's EM-9300; I could have tried GF's Exterior 450, or SW's A-100 deep base, or several others.  Every one would have been new to me.  The EM-9300 was bad but it could just as easily have been any of the other products.  Someone here recently had a bad gallon of Enduro Clear Poly (pink when opened).  It happens.  

John

[Stwood_]

Pic 2 and 3. You have shadows in there sometimes? Most times?