Unusual George Bishop 8" Backsaw

[TraditionalToolworks]

Yesterday when I was looking for a pic of a few Disston dovetail saws, I came across these pics of a George Bishop saw. Now, if you're one of those guys that likes interesting/peculiar saws, this is one.

In many ways it is similar to a Disston 70, it has a brass plated back that is thinner than a normal Disstton #4, and the nuts are similar plated with brass like the Disston 70 as well. It is like a Bishop copy of the Disston 70.
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Really peculiar is the handle, it is TINY. Not only is it thin, but it's designed for a tiny hand, but the size is fitting to the saw. So thin and fragile that it broke and has a screw in it...I haven't bothered to fix it, but would like to keep the original handle as it is so peculiar.Also of note is the nuts were cut down because the handle is so thin, so it's peculiar that Bishop would have such a strange saw, AFAIK, Bishop and Disston never partnered (I'm no historian though). But it's peculiar as I have never seen another Bishop saw with brass plated thin back or brass plated screws like Disston used. Maybe the brass plated screws could have been used in some other industry and readily available at the time? I don't know and just speculating. I like to speculate on old saws, that's about as good as anyone else does...


I haven't followed saws in a while, so maybe others have turned up in recent years...

Cheers,
Alan

PS - don't tell anyone I had to fix the folded back on the plate which had been smashed down to make it look canted. Huge advantage to using a folded back...I hear you can't do that easily on a slotted back...

[Tony Z]

Two comments: is it conceivable that many decades ago, the craftsman that owned the saw, made a handle to fit his/her hands, and may have used screws with thinner heads to preserve some thickness to the wood?

Second, did you get those holdfasts from Jake the Russian (Phil's chum up in Alaska)? If you note the brass like color on the ends/leaves, I sent Jake/phil some powdered brass to "sprinkle" on the hot metal when forming. I have an identical set and they top all others I have tried.

[hbmcc]

Yes, off-hand I call that a Franken-tool. My favorite block plane is that brand.

The handle is crying for a better fitting career job.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Two comments:  is it conceivable that many decades ago, the craftsman that owned the saw, made a handle to fit his/her hands, and may have used screws with thinner heads to preserve some thickness to the wood?

Yes, it is conceivable, I have pondered that...but the strange thing about this handle is that it looks like it's professionally made. Look around the center flat on the handle sides, it's cleanly running around the wood, and after pondering, I believe it is the original handle. The plate is clearly etched with Bishop. Nothing in any book or dirty paper I've ever seen that suggests that Bishop had such a saw. It is finer teeth similar to a Disston 68/70 also.

Second, did you get those holdfasts from Jake the Russian (Phil's chum up in Alaska)?  If you note the brass like color on the ends/leaves, I sent Jake/phil some powdered brass to "sprinkle" on the hot metal when forming.  I have an identical set and they top all others I have tried.

Hah, good eye Tony! Actually, Phil made those for me himself. They have a bass clef on them, rather than the leaf, which Phil did for my custom. I have used a bass clef as my touchmark on my blacksmith work, and since I have the stamp I have used it on the front of my saw spine. I want to try to etch, but haven't tried yet. I have an older Electromark that I am hoping to get working. Like most all of my tools I bought it used with various accessories. I don't have any type of template to use though...oh details, details, details...LOL

Everyone should have a set of holdfasts, I use them all the time. I didn't drill a lot of holes, but spaced them nicely and can add more easily if needed.

Yes, off-hand I call that a Franken-tool.

I don't call it that, but I will off the nod to say, "it could be". I have owned a lot of saws and have studied this one pretty closely under the microscope of my untrained eye (@$$#@ttery don't get much better than that, does it?
). What I will say is that it's "peculiar". I have a number of peculiar saws, this is one of them. I have pondered if someone could have made it themselves, but then why is the plate thinner than any other Bishop I've seen? Why is the TPI similar to a Disston 68/70? It is more likely that Bishop would have partnered with Disston than say a company like Harvey Peace, but don't know enough about the history. I say this since the styles of the handles and saws are more similar. It is highly unlikely that anyone would destroy an existing saw to make this, saws were too valuable in those days. And unlikely someone would have access to those similar screws that Disston had, unless they could order them from Disston, that is certainly a possibility. It is a peculiar saw, and for better or worse it will stay exactly as-is. I used to think I would make a new handle for it with exotic wood, but I think it has character the way it is.


I did post to get other's thoughts and appreciate you offering yours. I'm sharing mine the same.

The handle is crying for a better fitting career job.

I used to hear it crying, but it STFU over the years...LOL

Cheers,
Alan

[Daryl Weir]

Alan,

Take a look at the link below, I think you'll find the same saw at the bottom SA90930 Geo. H. Bishop. It's been listed there a while.

http://www.thebestthings.com/saws.htms

I was just at a MWTCA tool meet up at Garfield Farm, near St. Charles, IL, a few weeks ago. A gentleman, which I've known for a few years, showed me the very same saw. It also had a very small beech handle and a thin back. So I know of at least three of these that exist. I would have to say they are not common at all.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Alan,

Take a look at the link below, I think you'll find the same saw at the bottom SA90930 Geo. H. Bishop. It's been listed there a while.

http://www.thebestthings.com/saws.htm

I was just at a MWTCA tool meet up at Garfield Farm, near St. Charles, IL, a few weeks ago. A gentleman, which I've known for a few years, showed me the very same saw. It also had a very small beech handle and a thin back. So I know of at least three of these that exist. I would have to say they are not common at all.

Daryl,

Good to see your name around, I wasn't sure if you were still refurbing saws or not.

Indeed that does look almost the same, although the back is slightly thicker by the looks of it, hard to tell. Mine has a similar brass plates back like the Disston 68/70/71...

Thanks for replying, I agree, it's not a common saw, and this does in fact support what I suspected, that it was original as-is.

As to the price at The Best Things...well, I don't find the saw $495 worth of uncommon, but what do I know...and if someone offered him $1,000 and he didn't take it, to list it for $495, well...not sure what to say...but if it ain't $495 worth of cool to me, it certainly isn't worth $1,000.


I like it like it is, with the screw in the handle and all...has a bit of character...LOL (maybe one day I'll repair it)

EDIT: I should finish this story about where I bought this saw. There was an engineer in Silicon Valley, he became very fond of vintage tools...help anyone that gets this in their blood, as it usually takes a hold good. This guy had it worse than anyone I had met to that point, literally he had planes, saws, chisels, you name it...and not just like 1 duplicate, he had dozens. He had many Barnes tredel machines, one that I really wanted bad, it was an oscillating spindle sander. It had coolness factor through the roof.

Many of the Bay Area Galoots had gone there to buy stuff, and I didn't get there really early in the sale, but there was still boxes and boxes of stuff the guy had. He only had about a couple dozen saws, but I bought 3 or 4 of what turned out to be some of my favorite and most uncommon. He only charged me like $8 or $9 for this Bishop, but another really rare find was a 12" joiners saw that was made in San Francisco...even though I'm on the west coast, I have only seen a few west coast saws. It's a Patterson 12", I call it a joiners saw, but others might differ in what they call it. See attached...the split nuts are unbelievably thin, both washer and bolt head. Great saw, one of the few I have from the west coast.

The seller had remodeled his entire home except for a single wall, it was really gorgeous. Engineers are like that, and many take on the task of building a home...exactly like I'm trying to do...LOL He was an inspiration as he had done and had it under his belt. I walked away from there shaking my head, glad to find some cool saws. I was more excited about the Bishop than the Patterson, but after I did some research in Irv's books I realized the Patterson was a kind of rare bird in itself.


For anyone keeping score, here's another saw I needed to reset the back on because it fell and got knocked down...on the plate


Cheers,
Alan