lumber dimensions

[Cooler]

I went to Lowes the other day to buy some 8" nominal poplar boards.  The sign on the rack said " Eight inch poplar boards, actual width is 7½".

I happened to have my tape measure with me and I measured the board:

10" nominal = 9¼" actual
8" nominal = 7¼" actual
6" nominal = 5½" actual
(all smaller sizes are 1/2" under the nominal sizes.

I menthioned this to the store manager who said it was a "vendor issue, not a store issue."

I said "once you have a sign up that says that the 8" boards measure 7½ inches, then it becomes a store problem.  Change your signs."

I will check back this weekend but I got the sense that the signs were not going to be changed.

If Lowes is doing this, Home Depot will not be far behind.

[Stwood_]

Yes. Those sizes are industry standard now. That Lowes manager needs to keep up

[Admiral]

If Lowes is doing this, Home Depot will not be far behind.

I think it was Lowes (could have been HD or Menards, or all of them) who got into a lawsuit over this; that's when the signs started appearing.  A lot cheaper to change signage than pay lawyers to defend stupid lawsuits over nominal size descriptions.

[Roly]

Send a Email to Lowes corporate office,  tell them the store location and the managers response.  Roly

[Cooler]

Send a Email to Lowes corporate office,  tell them the store location and the managers response.  Roly

I am waiting to see if he changes the signs.  If he does not, then I will write to the corporate offices.

The way this sort of thing happens is a buyer from Lowes says, "I'm not paying one cent more for this material.  You're going to have to find a way to keep the pricing down."

The seller says, "The only way I can do that is if I reduce the nominal sizes by ¼".

The buy says, "I don't care how you do it, but make sure the invoices say that it is 7½" and not 7¼".  

Staples (the office supply store) is notorious for driving these kinds of deals (and notorious for billing descrepancies also).

[jamesglenn]

I understand the signage issue and it's implications. However, those actual dimensions are industry standards now and have been for decades. They correspond with framing lumber dimensions, pvc trim boards, cement trim boards, on and on. I design around the actual dimensions everyday.

Supposedly they start out rough-sawn at nominal size, but the drying and planing bring them down to actual dimensions. Of course that isn't completely accurate, just an excuse to maximize profits.

Luckily, when it comes to woodworking lumber, I have numerous sawmills around me and a lot of forest to harvest my own.

[FrankAtl]

That's the way it's been sold forever. Why is it suddenly an issue?

[FS7]

That's the way it's been sold forever. Why is it suddenly an issue?

It's an issue because Lowe's has started to include "actual" sizes on nominal wood products, including lumber, glued planks, and plywood.

If you go there, you will see that 1/2" plywood has an "actual" dimension on the sign that says it's 0.469" thick. This translates to 15/32", which everybody knows is the actual thickness of 1/2" plywood.

The problem is that while we know what the actual size of a 1x2, 1x4, etc. is, Lowe's apparently does not. The 1/2" drop stops at x6, and then it goes to a 3/4" drop. Lowe's is selling 1x8 with the actual size listed as 7.5", which it is not. Yes, the "standard" size is 7.25", but the sign says otherwise.

Cooler's right, this is something the store needs to fix.

[K. L. McReynolds]

Back when folks who built with construction grade wood were tough, a 2" by 4" board was 2" by 4"because it came straight from the mill and included nasty things like splinters. An awful lot of framing lumber before the 50's was hardwood(white oak and mahogany) and the splinters were part of the work. The splinters happened each time a board was handled, from the saw to loading for shipping to unloading and using.

Most folks have never worked with true 2x4 framing materials---doing so sure makes one appreciate the newer softwood materials.

Enter softwood framing material and faster methods of building. Splinters were a huge problem, so many mills solved that problem by milling 1/8" off each face and side of a board. Since construction measurements were based in the centers of the boards, a missing 1/8" either way was not a problem. Plus, edges were eased(rounded) to minimize cuts.

Rather than worry about actual measurements, calling a board that was actually 3&1/2" wide and 1&3/4" thick a 2" by 4" was not a problem, since the name served to differentiate a 2x4 from a 2x6, 2x8, and so on. No one cared, nor were there any reasons to worry about the missing width/thickness---remember, building was based on the centers of the lumber.

Lowe's is silly. If they label their lumber by the actual finished dimensions, a lot more people will be confused by the numbers and things will really get confusing.

Hardwood lumber is similarly measured. Rough cut maple, for instance, is saw cut to 1" thick(called 4/4) and planed to a total 3/4" thickness to be used for cabinetry. If a person wants actual 1" thick maple, they buy 5/4(rough cut to 1&1/4" thick. That way the wood is finished to the necessary 1" thick.

[Cooler]

[...] Plus, edges were eased(rounded) to minimize cuts.[...]

I read recently that the reason for the eased edges was to speed up inspection.  

If the inspector saw a 2 x 4 and all four edges were eased, then it was milled to the full size.

If one of the edges was still sharp then it is undersize.  

This actually sounds reasonable to me.  Does a mill really care if I get splinters?  Or are they more concerned about how quickly they can identify undersized lumber and cull it out.