Water Wheel Sharpeners (Tormek)

[MarkSLSmith]

Folks,

My Jet JSSG-10 wetstone grinder has developed a crack in the stone wheel.  It still seems to be usable, but I anticipate that the crack might grow or the wheel might fracture.  So it has me thinking about repair or replace.

One option would be to repair.  This doesn't look good from the outset, the nut holding the wheel now looks like a small amorphous blob of rust.  I read on the internet that the rust may be what caused the stone to crack.  

I'm not married to repairing the Jet.  I bought it for $100, and it nicely fulfilled it's purpose, which is that I got to try a tormek-like system without spending > $1000.  I am now kind of attached to it, so I am looking to replace.  

I read that people like to buy CBN wheels for a tormek.  This has the advantage that the water problems would be a thing of the past.  Right now, I'm having two problems with this approach.  One, I haven't been able to find a tormek for sale without the wheel (why pay $200 more for a stone you'll never use?).  Two, the CBN wheels are available in at least 6 grits, and I'm having a hard time to figure out which grit would be best.

I use the Jet for plane blades and chisels, but I hone on waterstones after forming the primary bevel.  I also use the Jet for turning tools.  I really prefer it for scrapers and skew chisels.  I still do gouges on the 8" slow speed grinder.

Thanks for your help,
Mark

[fredhargis]

I have the Jet and a Tormek (original, the Super grind model) and I have 2 CBN wheels for them...one a 1200 grit, the second a 400 grit. When I bought mine I read some advisories about which grit to get. The one that seemed to make the most sense to me suggested a 200 grit. Even so 200 seemed coarse, so I bougth a 400. I put it on my Jet and tried it on a few chisels and knives. It was just too coarse (in my judgement) and in talking to the guys at Woodturner's Wonders (where I bought mine) I described I wanted something that cut a little like my water wheels. They weren't sure which one compared exactly, but thought the 1200 grit would be a lot closer to my expectations than the 400. So I bought it. It's certainly a lot closer to the Tormek/Jet stones (IMHO) in performance and I'm happy with it. I've kept both since the 400 is useful for harder metals and when I want to get it done more quickly. What sent me on this quest was pretty much what happened to you....my Tormek stone got a chip and wasn't usable. But after buying the CBN wheels I went ahead and replaced it as well with another one...I still like the water wheel for some things, but like you pointed out the CBN wheels solve some problems: no truing, no water, much longer life. Now, for the one problem I've had. The CBN wheels both fit the Jet reasonably well. That is, they slide onto the arbor without too much problem. But on my Tormek (upgraded to the stainless steel arbor) the fit was so tight I could barely get them on, and had a hell of a time removing them. WTW told me they had never heard of this being a problem (he was also seemed unsure exactly which Tormek I had, even after I thoroughly explained it). In any case, I held some emory cloth on the arbor with the grinder running and it improved somewhat. I disd notice that last summer when it was warmer they slid right on and off. Then just this morning I tried putting the wheel on my Tormek (the one the Jet stayed there) and couldn't get it on. I though about heating it up slightly, then just went ahead and used the water wheel. I'm not sure any of this is useful, but thought I'd share my story.

PS, a small update. The fit problem on my Tormek this morning was with the 1200 whell. So after I typed this I though I'd check the 400 wheel as well. I took it off the Jet and it slid right onto the Tormek...so maybe my 1200 wheel has a slightly undersize hole.

[R Clark]

I have the Jet.  It tends to blow that internal fuse every now and then.

My stone is still in good shape, just a little over 9" in diameter, now.  If for some reason you decide to get that cracked stone off and upgrade, I'd like to know how you remove that nut.  Like yours, mine is a blob o' rust.  I've tried several times to loosen it, and I've sprayed more WD-40 on that thing than I care to know.  Yet, it remains solidly attached.

I almost pitched that Jet a couple weekends ago, then thought better of it.  I have all the jigs I need, and it does a passable job of shaping, so I decided not to give up on it, yet.  It's my primary for most everything, except lapping plane iron blades.  I've even done an acceptable job on knives for my 6" jointer.  Throw the Jet away, and then I need another solution.

[mike4244]

I have the Jet.  It tends to blow that internal fuse every now and then.

My stone is still in good shape, just a little over 9" in diameter, now.  If for some reason you decide to get that cracked stone off and upgrade, I'd like to know how you remove that nut.  Like yours, mine is a blob o' rust.  I've tried several times to loosen it, and I've sprayed more WD-40 on that thing than I care to know.  Yet, it remains solidly attached.

I almost pitched that Jet a couple weekends ago, then thought better of it.  I have all the jigs I need, and it does a passable job of shaping, so I decided not to give up on it, yet.  It's my primary for most everything, except lapping plane iron blades.  I've even done an acceptable job on knives for my 6" jointer.  Throw the Jet away, and then I need another solution.

I have an older model Grizzly with a 2" x 10" stone in a water bath. Same problem with the rusted nut. I heated the nut with a small butane torch and pried some rust off with an old screw driver. Between heat and PB Blaster I removed most of the rusty scale. I unbolted the pillow blocks and tapped the shaft off the stone and pillow blocks. I then polished the shaft and cleaned the pillow blocks before re-installing. 
I have a metal lathe so cleaning the shaft was easy. I turned the crap off each end before polishing. I greased the shaft before installing.

mike

[Gary G™]

Anytime I need to remove a rusted fitting, I turn to Kano Kroil.

[Troubleshooter]

A 50-50 mix of acetone and brake fluid is the best to get rusty bolts or nuts loose. Put them in a spray bottle. You have to shake it as they will separate after sitting.

[fredhargis]

, I'd like to know how you remove that nut.  Like yours, mine is a blob o' rust.  I've tried several times to loosen it, and I've sprayed more WD-40 on that thing than I care to know.  Yet, it remains solidly attached.

If you remove the felt wheel, there's wrench flats on that side of the arbor. that should allow you to secure the arbor and remove the nut (not to be insulting, but it's counterclockwise from the wheel end)

[R Clark]

Yeah, I've seen the wrench flats on the strop wheel side.  I have put a wrench on that side, but lack of movement in either direction after applying considerable force made me get very concerned about breaking something.  I was wondering if I was dealing with a right hand/left hand thread issue.

I'll try the kroil, but since the machine is working, I won't get overzealous and break it prematurely.

The CBN wheels are a distinct possibility if my wheel gives out. Replacing with another brand of sand-based grinding wheel is expensive, and so if I'm going to spend, I should at least evaluate the CBN wheels.

[dry heat]

Yeah, I've seen the wrench flats on the strop wheel side.  I have put a wrench on that side, but lack of movement in either direction after applying considerable force made me get very concerned about breaking something.  I was wondering if I was dealing with a right hand/left hand thread issue.

I'll try the kroil, but since the machine is working, I won't get overzealous and break it prematurely.

The CBN wheels are a distinct possibility if my wheel gives out.  Replacing with another brand of sand-based grinding wheel is expensive, and so if I'm going to spend, I should at least evaluate the CBN wheels.

Are you using the procedure that my old Tormek book recommends? "put wrench on nut and hit with a mallet" I've had to really whack mine but it does come loose after several hits. Worth a try. I've replaced my stone wheel with a CBN 120 grit and have a 800 for carving tools. I like both much better than the original.
Ed

[fredhargis]

I went back and looked again at my Jet. First, the arbor shows as a solid shaft through the housing in the manual so I doubt you would break it. But what i thought were wrench flats under the strope wheel were simply a nut holding the drive wheel in place. The end of the shaft is threaded M12x1.75 (I had to run a die over it to nail that down, as an aside who dreams the crap up?) so you can probably find that metric nut for $10 or so (
) at Lowes, and then use it as a jam nut against the other one. That should allow you to hold the arbor and get the stone side nut off.