Planning end grain

[tablesawtom]

First of all, I go out of my way to avoid planning end grain. But there is a time and a place for it. Also there s a lot of difference between head knowledge and and a lot of actual experience planning end grain  In other words I would like to hear from some experienced woodworkers as to what actually works for them.

First of all Head Knowledge:

A standard angle block plane is bedded at 20 degrees and if it is sharpened at 25 degree, then the shear angle would be 45 degrees which is the same angle as a bench plane. And if sharpening at a steeper angle of 30 degrees or more, it would be advantageous to working squirrely grain. A standard angle block would no have any advantage over a standard bench plane.

A low angle block ( bevel up plane) is bedded at 12 degrees and if sharpened at 25 degrees, the shear angle would be 37 degrees. If sharpened at 30 degrees the shear angle would be 43 degrees. The 43 degree angle is so close to standard bench plane ( bevel down) with a shear angle is 45 degrees, that the 2 degree difference would be a moot point 

I can see the advantages of a low angle bench plane ( bevel up ) or a low angle block ( again bevel up) but a 25 degree cutting (shear angle ) is not as strong as a 30 degree angle and will not hold up as long.


There is a difference between head knowledge,  which includes I used a sharpened block plane to cut a piece of end grain once which makes me an expert and actual experience. 


My question is to a person who cuts end grain on a regular basis ( taken with a grain of salt) what works for you and why? and does a 37 degree shear angle work better in end gain, if at all?

Tom

[MauleSkinner]

I don’t do a lot of end grain planing, either, so take it for what it’s worth...

I find that my smooth plane at 45 degrees does a better job than my block plane at 37 degrees, but in my case it probably has more to do with other aspects than the shear angle. Both are homemade woodies. the smooth plane is heavier and has a Hock iron with a chip breaker, so the iron is stiffer/more stable, where the block plane has a small Stanley iron with no chip breaker. I tend to get more chatter with the block plane, probably due to the difference in mass and stiffness.

That may or may not translate to what you’re using, but thought I’d throw it out there.

[tablesawtom]

I don’t do a lot of end grain planing, either, so take it for what it’s worth...

I find that my smooth plane at 45 degrees does a better job than my block plane at 37 degrees, but in my case it probably has more to do with other aspects than the  shear angle. Both are homemade woodies. the smooth plane is heavier and has a Hock iron with a chip breaker, so the iron is stiffer/more stable, where the block plane has a small Stanley iron with no chip breaker. I tend to get more chatter with the block plane, probably due to the difference in mass and stiffness.

That may or may not translate to what you’re using, but thought I’d throw it out there.

Thank you for your answer, It is exactly what I was hoping for. And thank you for mentioning home made woodies because that is exactly where I am wanting to go with this. 

You are confirming what I have experienced with the standard angle 45 degree plane. And you  are also confirming  how I feel about mass and weight.  Science says energy in motion tends to stay in motion and would also 
help when cutting end grain.

If the chip braker is set back .060 from the cutting edge, the side opposite the angle on the plane iron would be the same thickness whether the blade was .085 thick or a half inch thick, so I would give more credit to the chip braker than the blade thickness.  Alloying elements in the newer blades would help with edge retention  and how much end grain on could effectively cut. Something I hadn't considered. I think I will also give more consideration. to a better chip braker than I have in the past.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Tom

[tablesawtom]

Never having used a bevel up plane other than a block plane I am hoping to hear from some bevel up plane users.

Tom

[AHill]

Either a standard angle or low angle block will work, but in my experience, a low angle block plane is best. Paull Sellers explains it in this blog post better than I can.

https://paulsellers.com/2014/04/question...l-to-task/

You didn't mention what exactly you're thinking of planing. If it's a cutting board, you want something more hefty than a small block plane. A low angle jack plane has more heft and blade width to cover more area than a Stanley 102 or equivalent. A very sharp blade is your best friend planing end grain - no matter the angle. Also, it's better to plane from the near end to the middle, then all the way to the other side to avoid tearout on the exit side. Or you can clamp a sacrificial piece to the exit side to avoid that tearout.

If you're just trimming end grain off an edge of a board, a Stanley No. 60-1/2 or 102 works better than a standard angle block plane. (Lie-Nielsen uses the same numbers.)

Most dedicated shooting planes - designed for trimming end grain - have the bed at 12 deg. A blade with a 25 deg bevel makes the total cutting angle 37 deg.

[TomFromStLouis]

I use my LN low angle block and LN low angle jack. I skew the plane - sometimes a LOT - so the true cutting angle is even less. I still get chatter if it is set too rank, but to be honest I am a bit of a hack.

[barryvabeach]

I have a low angle block and a LN low angle jack, and use them both on end grain.  It does seem that they work better than a normal bench plane.  While a 25 edge bevel may not last as long as a 30 degree bevel,  the last several projects were table tops that were about 30 inches wide by 6 feet long - that is 15 square feet of face planing , 2 square feet of side grain,  for a total of 17 sq ft on non end grain v.  .8 square feet of end grain -  assuming I did the math right,  the low angle jack is used far less than my other bench planes, so I don't find that to be a problem.  Also,  like Tom,  i often skew, which lowers the angle even more.

[cputnam]

My best results have come from a 12" 96 tooth Freud miter saw blade.

When Uber sharp my low angle shooting plane with an O1 blade honed at 20- -23° is just as good but as you point out that edge does not last long. Next best is a PM-V11 blade honed @ 23° which lasts long enough to be useful. I prefer block planes for 4/4 stock and tend to go for a low angle bench plane for 8/4 and larger. FWIW & YMWV

[tablesawtom]

I have a Veritas wooden bench plane kit.  The instructions say to bed it at 45 degrees but there is nothing that says I can't bed it at 37 degrees or anything greater than 30 degrees since I can make it a bevel down plane.

Technically I think I could bed it at 31 degrees and make my primary angle on the blade at 30 Degrees and it would work. Personally I think that 31 degrees is a little to instream but I am wondering if say 35 degrees  would work.

It is for a shooting board and I also plan on skewing the blade at 20 degrees. the shooting board could be angled also but I think it would be easier and more accurate to skew the plane. I also heard weight mentioned and I have considered adding lead shot. Actually I just thought of making it out of steel.

In my line of work it is often a good idea to talk to a different Tool Maker and get a view what you are planning to do from a different prospective. Which is what I am doing here.

Tom

[Aram]

First of all, I go out of my way to avoid planning end grain. But there is a time and a place for it. Also there s a lot of difference between head knowledge and and a lot of actual experience planning end grain  In other words I would like to hear from some experienced woodworkers as to what actually works for them.

First of all Head Knowledge:

...

There is a difference between head knowledge,  which includes I used a sharpened block plane to cut a piece of end grain once which makes me an expert and actual experience. 
Agreed, and this is this most important learning 


My question is to a person who cuts end grain on a regular basis ( taken with a grain of salt) what works for you and why? and does a 37 degree shear angle work better in end gain, if at all?

Low angle block for freehand planing. Low angle jack for shooting, which I do a lot of. Both clean and easy, almost always on very hard, unforgiving woods. I've had great luck with edge retention. Granted both of my blades are A2, but I did start w/O1 way back when. I didn't go scrambling for my water stones very often.

Tom