prices of euro vs face frame cabinets

[Cooler]

I was reading a technical article in the Kitchen Cabinet Manufacturers Association (KCMA) and I came across a statistical article.  The article said that a typical 10' x 10' kitchen with face frame cabinets costs about $1,000.00 less than the same kitchen with Euro-cabinets (frameless).

I  am having a hard time wrapping my head around this.  The face frame cabinets use more material and take longer to build.  Why would they be cheaper?   

At first, I thought it might be because the face frame cabinets are easier to install, but when I went to a couple of sites that sold custom and stock cabinets the face frame cabinets were typically $50.00 to $100.00 less than the euro cabinets of the same grade from the same manufacturer.

So, what am I missing here?

[rwe2156]

What's different? Edge banding and hinges.  Maybe in some aspect of the manufacturing, it takes less time to make a face frame.

AFAIK having worked a little in a cab shop, we still had to dress the edges of the banding after going through the machine.

[Cooler]

Web research shows that frameless cabinets are made uniformly from 3/4" (or the mm equivalent) plywood.

Faceframe cabinets may use 5/8" or 1/2" for the box, and may use vinyl over particle board, where euro cabinets all seem to use 3/4" material, and rarely vinyl over particle board.

My guess that is the reason for the price differential.  

https://www.fixr.com/comparisons/framed-...abinets#cQ

Assuming that the type of wood used and style of the cabinets is relatively the same, you will find that it costs roughly $500 to $1,000 more for frameless cabinets than framed, depending on the manufacturer. Installation for both types is around $2,000 for a 10x10-foot kitchen.

The cabinets themselves cost around $3,570 for frameless cabinets with a Shaker door style and $2,740 for the same type of cabinets with a face frame. This makes the total for frameless cabinets $5,570 and framed cabinets $4,740, on average.

[rwe2156]

Probably it, Cooler.

Seems 1/2" cabinet material is fairly common, even advocated, these days.

I've had some cab guys I know have different opinions.  The industry figures these things out: material cost, shipping/handling weight, and I'm sure the cab guys like them for installing.

[Stwood_]

I always thought frame-less came out to compete with frame, and to be simpler and cheaper.

I've never done frame-less. Never interested me enough to change over to them.

[Cabinet Monkey]

cooler - could you post a link to that KCMA study ?      Stats can be made to say just about anything you want.

You don't say they specifically cost less to make -or- cost less at retail.   And did they survey a large co. that makes both kinds, or was this a general ask around or someones WAG?

Faceframe cabinets may use 5/8" or 1/2" for the box, and may use vinyl over particle board, where euro cabinets all seem to use 3/4" material, and rarely vinyl over particle board.
My guess that is the reason for the price differential.  

Really, where does the cost for hardwood used to make the frames get buried ?   Hardwood + crap 1/2 PB = less $$$ than quality 5/8" or 3/4" shetgoods and no hardwood ?  I'm skeptical.

 it takes less time to make a face frame.

How do you figure this ?     By the time you've selected the wood and cut it to size for a frame  I've run 4 panel edges through the edgebander.  Even if I have to change the color or material of the band and the glue, I'm still gonna be faster than you can cut and join a faceframe.     And after that, you still have to attach it to the carcass .  And then sand and finish it.   Your edgebander was sub par if you had to do hand work afterwards.

I'm done - on to making drawers or drawer fronts.  Carcass construction and doors are a wash time wise for either type.  I'm also going to be much faster assembling the hinge mounts, and drawer runners on mine because you're going to have to spend time adding blocks or back mounts or...... to put in your runners.   I'm just screwing them into system holes already waiting for them.  I'm also saving time attaching the drawerfronts because the mounting postition is the same no matter the size of the of the front or worrying about whether a screw is gonna poke through a 1/4" panel.  

I always thought frame-less came out to compete with frame, and to be simpler and cheaper.

It didn't come out to compete with framed cabinets.  It came out of necessity.   Europe was devistated after WWII with resources were scarce.  Simpler, cheaper, and faster ruled the day.   Consumers didn't really look at kitchen and bath cabinets as being pieces of furniture, which made traditional furniture construction methods and material and extravagance few could afford.  Or even wanted.   As long as they functioned and were affordable, that was good enough.