Lie-Nielsen A2 steel ??

[Ohio Mike]

I'm the proud owner of 4 new Lie-Nielsen chisels and I'm lapping the backs.  This is my first experience with A2 chisels.

After the hard work of progressing through the grits on my Shapton water stones all the way to 8000, I have achieved a mirror polish - sort of.

From a foot away the backs of these chisels look like mirrors but up close, I can see rough "grain" on the surface. 

As a test, I took one of the chisels back to the 1000 grit stone and progressed up to 8000 again with the same result.

I've attached pictures.  

The good news is they are razor sharp and cut end grain cleanly.  

So my question is - Is this grainy texture just the nature of A2 steel?  My O1 chisels polish up much more smoothly.

 

[Ohio Mike]

Mods,
 Sorry, I meant to post this in hand tools.  Can you relocate it?

Mike

[tablesawtom]

O1 has a finer grain structure than A2. 

Tom

[AUswimKC]

My experience with Shapton stones is that they produce cloudy scratch patterns. Granted I’m usually paying attention to the bevel, which is much smaller than the back

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

Call me crazy but my best mirrored backs and edges have came from scary sharp utilizing high quality automotive sandpaper up to 2000 grit progressing over 7 different grits: IIRC....400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000. My Norton 1000, 4000, 8000 water stones are much more fussy for me. This includes old chisels, irons and LN A2 steel.

[Philip1231]

Call me crazy but my best mirrored backs and edges have came from scary sharp utilizing high quality automotive sandpaper up to 2000 grit progressing over 7 different grits:  IIRC....400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000.  My Norton 1000, 4000, 8000 water stones are much more fussy for me.  This includes old chisels, irons and LN A2 steel.

I second this opinion: I routinely get a mirror polish on A2 using 5 micron 3M microfinishing film.

[tablesawtom]

I quote Mike  (The good news is they are razor sharp and cut end grain cleanly.)

I have a couple of questions. 

1.How sharp is sharp and how flat does the back of the chisel need to be. Flat and polish have nothing in common. 
2. If it cuts end grain cleanly, Why worry about grain structure and if the back has a high enough polish. which leads to #3.
3. How much polish is enough polish?
4. If it cuts end grain cleanly, why not just use it and when it stops cutting end grain cleanly, just stop and touch up the micro bevel and resume cutting wood?  

Tom

[Handplanesandmore]

tablesawtomI quote Mike  (The good news is they are razor sharp and cut end grain cleanly.)

I have a couple of questions. 

1.How sharp is sharp and how flat does the back of the chisel need to be. Flat and polish have nothing in common. 
2. If it cuts end grain cleanly, Why worry about grain structure and if the back has a high enough polish. which leads to #3.
3. How much polish is enough polish?
4. If it cuts end grain cleanly, why not just use it and when it stops cutting end grain cleanly, just stop and touch up the micro bevel and resume cutting wood?  

Tom

As long as the back (1" at the front, not the whole length) is flat and honed more or less to the same grit of the bevel (usually 8000 or 10,000), the edge is good for any woodworking jobs. The polishing, which is a by product rather than the goal, is irrelevant. Many people spend lots of unnecessary efforts on preparing their new chisels and plane blades because they trust what other people are saying on youtube or forums. Some people equate social media to authority . Of course, their time their say.

When I show people how to sharpen, I always end it with a paper test. To test the sharpness with a piece of paper, don't slice it at an angle. Even a mediocre edge can look sharp. The angle of entry should be as 90* as possible. The last point from this "expert" (social media, remember?): Sharpen often, and each effort will be small (1 to 2 minutes assuming it's a micro bevel) while staying sharp. Don't wait till your edge is like a screwdriver.

One of the reasons why many are afraid to start trying hand tools is that those who are good at using them make them sound like scarily complicated, expensive, and frustrating. Frankly, all the steel talk (to newbies) is unnecessary. How many router users become experts in carbide before they start routing?

Simon

[Ohio Mike]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I've already taken Tablesaw Tom's advice and placed these tools in an honored spot in my chisel drawer. They will definitely get used on my next project.

But one of the joys (for me) of this hobby is getting a chance to go all O.C.D. on some subject and right now it's these chisels   


Knowing that others have achieved a true mirror polish on their A2 chisels is valuable info.  

So I think I'll pick up some 3M sandpaper as suggested and see if I can improve upon the finish left by my Shapton stones.  Just for the fun of it! 


Thanks everybody,

Mike

[Timberwolf]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I've already taken Tablesaw Tom's advice and placed these tools in an honored spot in my chisel drawer. They will definitely get used on my next project.

But one of the joys (for me) of this hobby is getting a chance to go all O.C.D. on some subject and right now it's these chisels   


Knowing that others have achieved a true mirror polish on their A2 chisels is valuable info.  

So I think I'll pick up some 3M sandpaper as suggested and see if I can improve upon the finish left by my Shapton stones.  Just for the fun of it! 


Thanks everybody,

Mike

..................
You can quickly get a mirror polish using a leather wheel charged with chrome oxide. Can also be done with a felt wheel or hard-stitched muslin buff and chrome oxide..

Sharp enough for me is when I can stab-cut a paper towel in two directions and leave the cuts smooth with no tearing. But if I have a small carving knife, I want to be able to isolate a "single hair" on my arm and just barely touch it with the edge and have it just "pop" off into space...That type of edge takes a few minutes on the wheel, but it is a joy to use when the cut it leaves on the wood has a high polished surface just like it was waxed and buffed. It takes some pretty good steel to stand up to it and retain that edge very long.