Grizzly Tablesaw Motor problems- rant

[rednoblue]

Hi All,
I have a problem that I wanted to share.  May be a bit long and rant-y.

Been trying to fix this and posted over at Lumberjocks also. Maybe someone here may have another idea.

Used Grizzly Table saw G0715P.  Manufacture date 9-20-16. I bought it used, so I thought I could clean it up and it would be a good user for a long time. It was a huge upgrade from my little portable Hitachi table saw.

Motor failed to start & was locked up....

 So, I thought it may be bearings.
Took apart since switching bearings is not too bad of a job for a hacker like me.

FULL of sawdust (TEFC motor no less)
Bearings are fine, in fact, look new and spin great.

Windings had sorta melted/welded themselves to the casing somehow. that's when I knew the fix was probably beyond me...But I got it apart.


Called Grizzly....several times....no luck, this Covid thing has changed their customer service phone lines but they did answer an email. Their answer:
 (I will paraphrase)... "Sorry but its discontinued and we don't have parts and don't know who would. .
Get it rebuilt at a local electric repair shop. Have a nice day"

Well, thanks...a 4 year old saw is obsolete and NO support for it. NOT what I expected from Grizzly.

The local electric motor shop quoted me $600 to re wind to start...plus  other unspecified "bench fees ". YIKES! Only shop in town. No thanks.
Seems that re-winding smaller motors is not done much anymore. 
Cant see putting that much money in a saw that can be replaced with a new saw in the $1k range. (especially with no parts available)

By some miracle, found Harvey Woodworking. ( https://www.harveywoodworking.com/produc...-table-saw )
Makes good looking saws. Oddly enough, they have a saw that has the almost identical parts and 
motor and bracket looks the same. Really hopefull ...but, After a few conversations their engineer admitted that they used to supply that motor and bracket and other things to Grizzly but no longer make that motor. Not only that, the motor they do have that looks identical will NOT work to fix a grizzly.( i still think it should work but not willing to bet the $) (and I figure the engineer should know)

So, Tried to find a 2hp motor but most are pretty expensive and the main problem with this is the way Grizzly/ Harvey Woodworking built this motor, there is a special bracket on the top end of the motor as well as a bracket welded to the side of the motor that would have to be cut off and re-welded to the new motor. Its a special fit. I don't weld good enough to try that delicate of welding job so added expense ...and it may not work anyway...
I know of Unisaw owners that welded brackets on their motors but with the top casing bracket being so unique,  not sure I could make it work. Grizzly does sell a 2hp motor with standard flange-type bracket. I did wonder if I could cut that off, weld my old motor bracket to it, remove the 4 bolts that hold the top cap and switch it with my old motor top cap bracket...any of which would probably void the warranty on the new motor. If it worked, I could have it repaired for $400 -$500 or so...but no warranty on the new motor or parts for the saw.


I have decided to try to just part out this saw and buy something else. Whatever that may be. 
Wont be a grizzly product. I know many on here have great experience with grizzly and I don't want to start a bashing... they are a good company. BUT: think twice before buying even a grizzly used. Double check parts availability before buying...(that's probably true for anything by any company-not just Grizzly)" I blithely thought, oh, Its a Grizzly, I can get parts easily if needed"
 Make sure they can and will support that particular model if something breaks. For what it would cost to get this thing working I would be well on my way to a new saw with warranty and parts available. I did not buy it new so Grizzly doesn't really owe me anything. But it does affect my thinking about using their products in the future.


I hope I didn't offend anyone and I tried to just keep to the facts. If grizzly had the motor replacement, I would have just grumbled to myself about the cost but bought it.
Sad that I can't see a way fix it for a reasonable expense.
If someone has a suggestion I may not have tried, I am open but also need to cut my losses and not throw too much money at a saw with no parts available.

Thanks for letting me rant a bit. Love this site and read almost every day. Don't post much since I don't really have the skills to help out much. But I learn something everytime I come here.

GaryP

[Stwood_]

I wouldn't throw any money at it. Mark it as a loss and find another saw.
Griz has gotten caught with their pants down last year. Lack of product and parts coming from China and Taiwan. Probably not much they can do about it till things straighten out.

[barryvabeach]

Gary, sorry to hear about your problems.  If it were me, and i was sure the rest of the saw was in good shape, I would go on craigslist, offer up, etc, and try to find a similar sized used induction motor.  Around here, there are a few guys that offer to do welding on craigslist - ( i just did a check under services and i saw ads from small commercial shops all the way down to a guy who, from his ad, sounds like he has a welding machine, and you come to his house, and he welds the project at $75 an hour ).  Talk to whoever it is long enough to confirm that they seem to have skills to weld the old bracket onto the new ( used ) motor  and you should be back in business for $200 to $250.  I agree, I would not put $400 to $500 into the saw

After I posted this,  I remembered I actually did something different.  I had an old Powermatic jointer, with a motor with the common frame mounting bracket on the bottom ( 42 IIRC ) and found a motor with a C face mounting pattern-  bolts go into the face of the motor, and just made a bracket out of baltic birch ply, mounted the C Face motor to that bracket, and mounted that bracket to the mounting plate on the jointer, and it worked fine.  Obviously, there is a lot more room on a jointer, but you may be able to craft an adapter.  Or you may find a commercial bracket that you can modify to work. https://www.zoro.com/dayton-mounting-bas...EwQAvD_BwE

[TDKPE]

Have you tested the DC resistance of the windings?  The start and run (if it has a run) capacitor?  Does it make any noise when you try to start it, like a loud whine?  

The bracket doesn’t look like much (see photo from the manual).  Should be easy enough to transfer to another motor, though I accept that there are parts that can’t be seen in this photo.  Only a few stitch welds holding it.  

As to being TEFC, well, lots of Asian motors look like that these days (Delta had/has some), but under the fan it’s actually open to the windings.  Not good.

It may not be worth it to mess with it, which is unfortunate unless it’s something simple like a stuck centrifugal switch (it’s packed with saw dust, after all) or a fried start capacitor, either of which are easy to fix.

[charliez]

Stories like this is why I decided to go with Powermatic instead of Grizzly. Yes, all mfg's can have their issues. In this case above, I certainly would have fitted a different motor, but I can weld and fabricate brackets. I would guess that the winding are burned in the motor talked about here form trying it over and over. You don't know what it went through before you got it. This might be a good time to learn how to weld better. Your not talking rocket science. A few YT videos and some practice and it can be done. Amazon and Harbor Freight are great sources of simple motors. Other things about Grizzly, you'll find odd fitting sizes, like the tool post on the lathes. They are a mm size which in the lathe world is an odd duck.

[messmaker]

Stories like this is why I decided to go with Powermatic instead of Grizzly.  Yes, all mfg's can have their issues.  In this case above, I certainly would have fitted a different motor, but I can weld and fabricate brackets.  I would guess that the winding are burned in the motor talked about here form trying it over and over.  You don't know what it went through before you got it.   This might be a good time to learn how to weld better.  Your not talking rocket science.  A few YT videos and some practice and it can be done.  Amazon and Harbor Freight are great sources of simple motors.  Other things about Grizzly, you'll find odd fitting sizes, like the tool post on the lathes.  They are a mm size which in the lathe world is an odd duck.

I think this is the best answer. A good fabricator would take it as a personal challenge. Start your conversation with"I doubt you can fix this".

[fishhh4]

I was looking around the web at the various hybrid manuals. I found this 2 hp. It has a hole on the face but no bracket on the side... FWIW
A lot of saws are manufactured by the same company in Taiwan. You may find something else similar by cross-referencing manuals.


 Shop Fox motor

At one time Geetech produced machines for all these brands in their factory.
 
[attachment=33191]

[rwe2156]

It's an issue, and not just limited to Grizzly. I bought a Jet lathe and had to replace the Reeves drive pulleys, except they didn't fit the shaft b/c they started using a shaft .005" bigger (?). To Jet's credit they gave me a replacement shaft and bearings.

A lot of saws are manufactured by the same company in Taiwan. You may find something else similar by cross-referencing manuals.

This is true except would insert "machines" b/c I think most of the table saws are brand specific.

When I was shopping for planers I couldn't see paying 50-75% more for the mustard yellow or white when the green looked identical. I realize switches & motors can make the difference, but $1000-1500?

My Grizzly 20" planer has the same exact castings as a PM or Jet. Granted the motor and switches are different and rollers instead of tables (big deal) but is that worth $1000?

On the 15" planers below Grizzly $1625 Powermatic $2888 Other than the bases, switches and motors what's the difference other than 1200 bucks?

[Rich Aldrich]

I just dealt with Grizzly on a motor for my G1023 that I bought in 2000.  It was discontinued but the had a replacement for it.  I did talk to them on the phone and didn't have to hold very long.  I waited until 11 am EST to call because I think it might have been to the Washington location.  It is not as easy to blow you off if you call, but they also have to answer the phone.

We were doing a project for work and I was pushing the saw.  The motor heated up and tripped the overload.  IT had a bit of a smell to it (hot windings or insulation) but it seems fine.  I bought the motor because my boss told me he didn't want to be responsible for the motor later.

[oakey]

i have the 15 inch grizzly planer gear box failed after about ten hours use appeared to miss a Harding operation
and the motor failed at four five years of light hobby shop use
the gears were the same as king tool a Canada co so i just used those in my fix it has been ok now for ten years
the motor was replaced with a similar USA version it also seems ok but them repairs wiped out any saving i had in the grizzly purchase
the cheap stuff seem to always have a reason to be cheaper IMO