Coffin smoother question

[clovishound]

I've had a rather ordinary looking coffin smoother in the shop for a number of years. My brother picked it up at a flea in fla a while back. It's in pretty decent condition overall, just never worked that well, and was relegated to the back of the pack. I ran across it the other day and thought I would try and see what was going on. Discovered the bed was not flat. Don't know why I never looked at that before. I partially flattened it today and it behaves much better, but the wood is really hard, and needs more work to get it flatter. I'm using a large mile file to flatten.

My question is two fold.

Has anyone heard of a plane by W. Hogg, or A. Beil? The Hogg is stamped in several places, and the Beil in just one. It has a Glasgow iron. Did an internet search and came up with nothing. I could post a picture, but it looks just like every other coffin smoother I've seen.

Stamped on the butt is a 1 with a 24 under it. Could this be manufactured in Jan of 1924? I have my doubts it's 1824.

I need to work on the bed some more, and double check the sole for flatness and start using this little guy. One section of the wedge has a gap on near the mouth and again near the top. Not sure whether to work on the wedge or the escapement (not sure that's the correct term for the ledge on the cheek the wedge fits under).

[Robert1921]

W. Hogg is the owner’s name

For the sole, try using abrasive glued down to a sheet of glass or lump of marble kitchen top off cut.

After using a coarse grade to the bulk of the work, switch to something finer to finish. Wipe over with linseed oil a few times, a wipe of wax, and you’re good to go

The numbers may refer to size, to a serial number....

Glasgow was a major shipbuilding centre in the days of wood. Hundreds of workers on site with their tools. Dozens of schools and apprentices.

[barryvabeach]

For the bed ,  remember that dead flat is not required, but a high spot above the mouth can allow lots of chatter.  I made a small piece of plastic with an end cut at an angle so it fits the bed all the way down to the sole to check the bed for flatness, again, a hair or two low in the middle of the bed is fine.  A very dull chisel can also be used as a scraper to remove wood, Dull Chisel  it will be easier to remove wood in a specific area with this, as opposed to a file.
 As to the wedge,  definitely check the  wedge first, if it is not flat, get it flat.  If you mess it up, you can always make another wedge, not true for the cheek abutments.   On the wedge, same thing as the bed, a little gap is fine everywhere but closest to the mouth and farthest up.  What I do is start with a set of feeler gauges, insert the iron and the wedge , then try with a feeler gauge to under the iron coming up from the mouth -   if you play with the fitting of the bed and the wedge, you should not be able to fit a .001 gauge anywhere along the bottom edge of the blade.

[clovishound]

For the bed ,  remember that dead flat is not required, but a high spot above the mouth can allow lots of chatter.  I made a small piece of plastic with an end cut at an angle so it fits the bed all the way down to the sole to check the bed for flatness, again, a hair or two low in the middle of the bed is fine.  A very dull chisel can also be used as a scraper to remove wood, Dull Chisel  it will be easier to remove wood in a specific area with this, as opposed to a file.
 As to the wedge,  definitely check the  wedge first, if it is not flat, get it flat.  If you mess it up, you can always make another wedge, not true for the cheek abutments.   On the wedge, same thing as the bed, a little gap is fine everywhere but closest to the mouth and farthest up.  What I do is start with a set of feeler gauges, insert the iron and the wedge , then try with a feeler gauge to under the iron coming up from the mouth -   if you play with the fitting of the bed and the wedge, you should not be able to fit a .001 gauge anywhere along the bottom edge of the blade.

When I put the iron on the bed and apply finger pressure, I can see light, more than a sliver, in the middle. It is obviously high close to the cheeks on both sides. The wedge, when fully inserted and tapped in, shows a small gap on the left side near the mouth and then again further up towards the top edge of the abutment.

The gap in the middle of the bed was much worse when I started with the file.

I suppose I should break out a straightedge and see if the wedge gap is a high spot on the abutment.

[Timberwolf]

When I put the iron on the bed and apply finger pressure, I can see light, more than a sliver, in the middle. It is obviously high close to the cheeks on both sides. The wedge, when fully inserted and tapped in, shows a small gap on the left side near the mouth and then again further up towards the top edge of the abutment.

The gap in the middle of the bed was much worse when I started with the file.

I suppose I should break out a straightedge and see if the wedge gap is a high spot on the abutment.

...............
You can inlay a brass "wear plate" like this old shipwright's Lignum Vitae plane and close up the mouth if need be.. This one sings.......

[C. in Indy]

   

[clovishound]

The mouth on mine is a tad less than 1/16 th inch. I don't think I'll mess with that.

The sole is pretty flat. I seem to remember flattening it when I got it. I don't think it was out by much.

[barryvabeach]

When I put the iron on the bed and apply finger pressure, I can see light, more than a sliver, in the middle. It is obviously high close to the cheeks on both sides. The wedge, when fully inserted and tapped in, shows a small gap on the left side near the mouth and then again further up towards the top edge of the abutment.

The gap in the middle of the bed was much worse when I started with the file.

I suppose I should break out a straightedge and see if the wedge gap is a high spot on the abutment.

If you see light, that is pretty bad, first check to make sure the iron is flat, it could be cupped.  If the iron is flat,  I would use the dull chisel method to start removing material from the bed -  start about a 1/2 inch down from the top of the plane and stop a 1/2 inch up from the bottom.  Once you get it very close to flat - meaning a .003 feeler gauge won't fit, you can work closer to the sole - but very slowly.   Sometimes I use a candle and get soot on the underside of the blade, then put it in place, and see where the soot wears off.    Start around 2:50 in this video   soot on bed   BTW,  I hold the blade much closer to the flame, it produces more soot, and I put the plane on the bench when I go to shave off material, instead of trying to hold it in one hand and hold the chisel in the other.  

On the abutment,  yes, if the shape of the forward side of the abutment that the wedge bears on ,  looking from top to bottom, is like a banana,  with the areas near the sole and the top of the plane are higher than in the middle, the wedge will never fit right.  If instead, that is on a straight plane,  it is just a matter of getting the wedge to be exactly the right angle, and have it be .002 or so gap all along the length when it is nearly pushed home, so it tightens up fully when you push it home.  I normally can't get that exactly right, so I use a scraper to take some material off the upper side of the wedge from about a 1/2 inch from where it is closest to the sole to about a 1/2 to 3/4 inch from where the wedge is at the upper part of the plane body.  As long as it is tight at the sole and the upper part, having it .002 or .003 loose in the middle is not an issue.   It does take some fiddling to get it fitted, but it is worth it in terms of performance.

[clovishound]

I looked at the toe of the plane just a little while ago. Man, this thing has more names on it than you can shake a stick at.

Looks like Alex Marshell is probably the manufacturer. It also has Galloway & Co Edinborough.

Also has what is probably the names of 3 or 4 owners stamped into it. One guy really got carried away with that.

[OBG53]

Has anyone heard of a plane by W. Hogg, or A. Beil? The Hogg is stamped in several places, and the Beil in just one. It has a Glasgow iron. Did an internet search and came up with nothing. I could post a picture, but it looks just like every other coffin smoother I've seen.

According to Goodman's British Planemakers, 4th Edition, there was a James Hogg in Glasgow, Scotland in 1861 and Robert and William Hogg in Edinburgh, Scotland in 1851. Therefore, Hogg is not the owner's name. Most likely Biel and Marshell owned the plane at one time since there's no listing for Marshell or Beil in Goodman's.

 I think that the toothing plane I once had was by Hogg.