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that is according to a couple of folks in another forum. They argue that the microbevel renders it impossible to use the primary bevel for registration or something like that. In the same vein of logic, buffering or stropping is a no no for chisels.
These people would make excellent business professors in an ivory tower as opposed to successful CEOs in a real world.
Simon
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Most all of my chisels have secondary bevels (not necessarily microbevels). I've not experienced any issues with bevel down work. You just tilt the chisel until is starts cutting. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me. The most common task for which I go bevel down is trimming out corners in mortises or stopped dados/grooves.
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(12-28-2021, 01:08 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: that is according to a couple of folks in another forum. They argue that the microbevel renders it impossible to use the primary bevel for registration or something like that. In the same vein of logic, buffering or stropping is a no no for chisels.
These people would make excellent business professors in an ivory tower as opposed to successful CEOs in a real world.
Simon ................
I don't micro-bevel {aka blount} any edge tool unless the work tells me I have to, when the steel cannot tolerate a bevel that low an angle for any length of time...And I agree buffing or stropping is a no-no...IF you don't know how it is done. I don't know where people come up with these ideas.....but I wouldn't put it out there for others to see....
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(12-28-2021, 02:20 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: ................
I don't micro-bevel {aka blount} any edge tool unless the work tells me I have to, when the steel cannot tolerate a bevel that low an angle for any length of time...And I agree buffing or stropping is a no-no...IF you don't know how it is done. I don't know where people come up with these ideas.....but I wouldn't put it out there for others to see....
Interestingly enough, Lee Valley sells their PM-V11 line of chisels with a 2 degree micro-bevel added to the primary bevel (25 or 30 deg, depending on the chisel). Lie-Nielsen recommends adding a 5 deg secondary bevel to their A2 bench chisels whose primary bevel is ground at 30 deg. I make the distinction between micro and secondary bevels because that's what LV and LN did.
I wonder what the posters in the other forum think about secondary bevels on chisels vs. a micro-bevel? At what point does a secondary bevel become easier to register bevel-down against the wood vs. a micro-bevel? Seems subjective to me.
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12-28-2021, 04:13 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2021, 04:16 PM by Timberwolf.)
(12-28-2021, 02:59 PM)AHill Wrote: Interestingly enough, Lee Valley sells their PM-V11 line of chisels with a 2 degree micro-bevel added to the primary bevel (25 or 30 deg, depending on the chisel). Lie-Nielsen recommends adding a 5 deg secondary bevel to their A2 bench chisels whose primary bevel is ground at 30 deg. I make the distinction between micro and secondary bevels because that's what LV and LN did.
I wonder what the posters in the other forum think about secondary bevels on chisels vs. a micro-bevel? At what point does a secondary bevel become easier to register bevel-down against the wood vs. a micro-bevel? Seems subjective to me. ........................
To me, the lower the bevel, the sharper the edge..the sharper the edge, the easier it cuts....It depends on the wood..if it turns the edge, I "beef up" the edge by raising the angle a bit right at the edge. No point in changing the entire bevel angle that I can see...I had a set of four Marples chisels one time that would not hold an edge any time at all before folding...not chipping...so I broke out the mapp torch, heated them cherry red and quenched in engine oil, then shined them back up and tempered them..That was all they needed to work very well...Good steel, improperly tempered.....I have hardened mild steel using an acetylene torch and a can of Kasenite Compound...That product is used to "surface or case harden" softer steel and give it better wearing qualities, but done properly, with oxy/acetylene it an be heated to the point that steel up to 1/4" thick can be hardened all the way through it. I liked demonstrating that to non-believers...
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/instr-shop/SDS/Kasenit.pdf
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(12-28-2021, 04:13 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: ........................
I have hardened mild steel using an acetylene torch and a can of Kasenite Compound...That product is used to "surface or case harden" softer steel and give it better wearing qualities, but done properly, with oxy/acetylene it an be heated to the point that steel up to 1/4" thick can be hardened all the way through it. I liked demonstrating that to non-believers...
http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/instr-shop/SDS/Kasenit.pdf
A bit of an aside, you might find Clickspring’s method interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Mp1fNzIT8
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I've never found the need to micro bevel. Pedantic brain farts encourage it, if you ask me. But that's just an old fart with his firmly held opinion... ha ha!
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Question,then? Who was it that always wanted FOUR bevels on their edge tools?
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(12-28-2021, 01:08 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: that is according to a couple of folks in another forum. They argue that the microbevel renders it impossible to use the primary bevel for registration or something like that. In the same vein of logic, buffering or stropping is a no no for chisels.
These people would make excellent business professors in an ivory tower as opposed to successful CEOs in a real world.
Simon
Do you do a lot of bevel down work?
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12-29-2021, 08:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2022, 11:02 PM by Derek Cohen.)
For a start, a "micro bevel" is simply a very small bevel. What everyone here is referring to is a "secondary bevel". To be more specific, a micro secondary bevel.
Secondly, every time one uses a honing guide, they create a micro secondary bevel.
The alternative to this is a flat bevel (such as Japanese chisels), one that start off as a single primary bevel, and is polished without altering the angle. Or hone directly on a hollow grind. That will create a micro bevel without it being "secondary". Altering the bevel angle creates a secondary bevel. It is no longer coplanar.
In any event, when using a chisel bevel down, a secondary bevel will interfere if you ride the bevel. You need the bevel to be coplanar.
One uses a chisel bevel down when working into tight areas or when the need for precision is utmost. Think of working a hinge mortice.
The bevel directs where the blade will cut. With a vertical chisel, bevel down will travel quite differently to bevel up. A micro bevel is just a tiny bevel - a secondary micro bevel will alter the path of the bevel. EDIT TO CLARIFY: So adjust to the change of angle by anticipating that you will need to find the sweet spot on the secondary micro bevel, and not expect to ride on the primary bevel.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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