some CNC upgrades

[Juss1]

I've been thinking about upgrading my 1.25hp Makita router on my cnc to a spindle and finally pulled the trigger a couple weeks ago.  Initially I was thinking about getting a higher end German model but the sticker shock I got after requesting a quote had me quickly changing my mind.  I ended up getting a a generic model that you get at the jungle or other places.  In fact I suspect it's the same model that many other CNC companies like Laguna or Next wave uses.  At least in their consumer / prosumer models.  The cnc is 2.2kw 3HP and is water cooled.  Instead of getting a regular water pump I got a water "chiller".   Although it's more heat transfer unit as it doesn't really have any refrigerant.  Just a set of radiator type coils.  It does have an alarm though when it senses the flow stop.  The VFD and chiller are hooked up to one switch and the Dust collector is on another.   I just finished making a new spoilboard for it (although I kind of regret the dog positions and will change those when I make a new one).  I also make a spoilboard for my spoilboard
which are held down by bolts into threaded inserts.  I'm still trying out different clamping options.  Right now I'm really liking the wedge method or the composite nails.  Big thanks to jteneyck for answering my electrical related questions.  Still need to work on my cord management but so far I'm pretty pleased with the results.

[EightFingers]

What I learned very quickly about CNC was that’s it’s all about the clamping. If the workpiece ever moves, it’s usually trashed.

[Juss1]

Totally agree. I was using the blue tape method but that was taking too long and got expensive. Using t-track clamps often got in the way. So I’m going to make my own low profile clamps which will do attach to the threaded inserts. And maybe making some cam clamps.

[jteneyck]

Good stuff, Paul.  So how did you find wiring the spindle and VFD?  The location of the VFD suggests you have it connected to the 1F controller so you can control it from that.  Yes? If so, how did that go?  I'm still deciding whether or not a spindle is in my near future, so any input is helpful.  

How did you end up with the DC in that location?  

John

[Juss1]

Good stuff, Paul.  So how did you find wiring the spindle and VFD?  The location of the VFD suggests you have it connected to the 1F controller so you can control it from that.  Yes? If so, how did that go?  I'm still deciding whether or not a spindle is in my near future, so any input is helpful.  

How did you end up with the DC in that location?  

John

Wiring the spindle was much easier than expected.  Yes I have the controller control the VFD.  If you decide to do the same I highly suggest getting the breakout board from 1F.  The only other thing you would need to purchase is a shielded cable to connect the VFD to the breakout board.  After that it's a few settings on the VFD to tell it that the controller will be controlling it and adjust some settings on the 1F menu to tell it what VFD you are using.  I was most worried about the EMI like we talked about but so far I don't see any effects.  And I still haven't even attached the ferrite cores.  I will eventually, just forgot to do so.  So far I'm really glad I made the switch.  The biggest plus for me so far is being able to use 1/2" shank bits.  I can really ramp up the feed rate without fear of breaking a bit.  I did a few test cuts using a 3/8" diameter bit (1/2" shank) at 120 ipm with 1/4"" depth of cut and it had zero issues.  Pretty sure I could have pushed it even harder with no issues. 

I should also mention that I changed the Z-slider to the heavy duty version.  1F recommends this to accommodate the much heavier weight of the spindle.  You could take a chance and keep the same z-slider but just note that the spindle mount on the regular slider is different than the one for the heavy duty version.  Also 1F will give a discount on the HD version if you return your regular one.  The other thing I found a little strange is that when you turn the machine completely off the spindle slowly drops to the bottom.  I asked 1F about this and they said it was normal due to the added weight *shrugs*

I have the DC in that location for 2 main reasons.
1.  My cnc room is tiny and I don't have an easy way of getting to back without pulling the cnc out (it's on casters).  So I needed the DC in the front so I can easily empty the bag.  Since all the electrical components are on the left I put it on the right.
2.  Not as important, I wasn't sure if the DC was going to introduce EMI so I wanted it as far away from the controller as possible.  Same reason why I put the VFD where it is.  I would have put that even farther but the wire connecting the 2 was too short.

[jteneyck]

Thanks for the follow up, Paul.  I'm glad to hear the spindle installation wasn't too hard and EMI has not been an issue.  I bought the breakout board when I ordered the machine, so I'm all set on that end.  I also have an 80 mm mount that someone gave me after they upgraded.  I can see how the new Z-slider would be better if you add a spindle, but the fact that it lets the spindle drop after powering off isn't a great. The mass of the spindle does bother me, and I'd add a Stiffy if I upgrade to the Beefy Z.  I guess 1F rode the same horse when designing the Stiffy, but 2 horizontal tubes, several inches apart, would have given a lot more lateral stiffness. 

I'm quite sure you could run that 3/8" bit well over 200 ipm with a 0.25 doc.  I often run 120 ipm with a 0.21 doc on a 1/4" bit (SpeTools' stock settings) using the Makita, and neither the bit nor router complain.  Lots of people claim to go well over 200 ipm with a 1/4" bit.  

Good luck with the new setup.  

John

[Juss1]

Thanks for the follow up, Paul.  I'm glad to hear the spindle installation wasn't too hard and EMI has not been an issue.  I bought the breakout board when I ordered the machine, so I'm all set on that end.  I also have an 80 mm mount that someone gave me after they upgraded.  I can see how the new Z-slider would be better if you add a spindle, but the fact that it lets the spindle drop after powering off isn't a great. The mass of the spindle does bother me, and I'd add a Stiffy if I upgrade to the Beefy Z.  I guess 1F rode the same horse when designing the Stiffy, but 2 horizontal tubes, several inches apart, would have given a lot more lateral stiffness. 

I'm quite sure you could run that 3/8" bit well over 200 ipm with a 0.25 doc.  I often run 120 ipm with a 0.21 doc on a 1/4" bit (SpeTools' stock settings) using the Makita, and neither the bit nor router complain.  Lots of people claim to go well over 200 ipm with a 1/4" bit.  

Good luck with the new setup.  

John

So I've been doing a little more testing have found another pro and con.

Pro:  It's much quieter than a router.  I knew this going into it but it's usually accompanied with "the sound difference isn't so big when it's actually cutting" .  This may be true in many instances, especially when doing deep pockets or profile cuts but when doing 3D carvings the sound difference is very apparent because  in those cases very little wood is being removed per pass and therefore most of the noise comes from the router or spindle.  In that instance the DC and chiller are much louder.

Con:  Can no longer pause on long 3D carvings.  Unlike the router you can't just turn off the spindle (well not with these cheaper generic VFDs.  I believe the some Omron and Hitachi can add a switch) because when you turn the vfd back on, it automatically reverts back to 0 speed.  With my garage door closed I can barely hear the noise so maybe I can run it throughout the night.    Will to talk to my neighbors and see if the noise it noticeable to them.  If that's not an option I will just stop the machine all together and run a continuing toolpath on vcarve.  I've done that is the past.  Works ok but there is a bit of sanding where the 2 carvings meet.

[fixtureman]

can't you program your VFD and add an input switch to your controller

[jteneyck]

Not being able to stop the spindle on long 3D carves would be reason enough to go to manual control, even if it meant completely separating it from the controller.  That wouldn't be convenient from where you have the VFD mounted, but if it came to that, I'd move it.  A side benefit would be being able to change speed during use, something you can't do with the stock controller.  

My primary goal of going to a spindle would be for 3D carves.  As you said, it will be much quieter when doing finishing passes, which is the bulk of the time.  

John

[APZ]

My new Onefinity should arrive early in the new year and I’ll get a spindle for it but I’m on the fence between water and air cooled. The simplicity of air cooled is appealing but I love having less noise. Are you happy with your choice of water cooled? My dust collector is in another room so it’s not TOO loud near the CNC. The Mikita router was pretty loud on my previous CNC. I hate wearing hearing protection.