Cherry and Lye

[ed kerns]

Hi all,
I'm building a table of Cherry wood for someone. They are looking for that 100 year old cherry look that no one wants to wait for. I've been experimenting with a lye as well as stains, shellac and such and am pretty happy with the color I'm getting from the lye wash. Have any of you been down this path and able to offer advice? So far I've only used a teaspoon of lye in 2 cups of water. Does more concentrate or additional applications darken the result? Does the sun still continue to darken Cherry after a lye finish? Do I need to neutralize (maybe wipe with vinegar) before I top coat? Is it important to maintain a wet edge to avoid striping? Does this technique do anything for or against cherry's inherent tendency to blotch? I know I need to sand back the raised grain from the water, after drying is there a recommended top coat? I have a lot of time and material into the project and will definitely pre-test any finish, but would be grateful for anyone's voice of experience. I'm not set up to spray -at least in the winter months- so any finish needs to be brushed or rubbed on.  Thank you!

[Willyou]

I tried it and didn't find it any better or, maybe, not as good as conventional stains or dyes. Why bother with something potentially dangerous. In my experience, the cherry will continue to darken unless you artificially darken it enough to not notice. The lye will do nothing regarding blotching. My advice is to use a water based dye like Transtint or similar to get the color you want. Spray a light coat of shellac (dewaxed), sand it lightly (220-320), and then apply what ever top coat you like.

[ed kerns]

I tried it and didn't find it any better or, maybe, not as good as conventional stains or dyes. Why bother with something potentially dangerous. In my experience, the cherry will continue to darken unless you artificially darken it enough to not notice. The lye will do nothing regarding blotching. My advice is to use a water based dye like Transtint or similar to get the color you want. Spray a light coat of shellac (dewaxed), sand it lightly (220-320), and then apply what ever top coat you like.

Thank you for the advice. I tried a little lye wash on a few sample pieces. I like the color fine - and better than the stains I had on hand. Other than black transtint, I've not used dyes or dye stains. Maybe I'll pick a couple of colors and see how it goes.

[Willyou]

Thank you for the advice. I tried a little lye wash on a few sample pieces. I like the color fine - and better than the stains I had on hand. Other than black transtint, I've not used dyes or dye stains. Maybe I'll pick a couple of colors and see how it goes.

If I may offer some hints if you have not used dye. Transtint is, of course, a concentrated liquid. To minimize cost I started with a medium brown and the primary colors of red, blue, & yellow in addition to black. With these, you can mix most any color. Starting with the brown because most woodworking colors are some form of brown. I did later add green to my collection. Also, I quickly found that I get a more even application using water rather than alcohol. Hope that helps.

[jteneyck]

I tried lye/water on cherry after reading about it.  It didn't do much of anything as best as I can remember.  Sometime later I started using Transtint dyes.  Wow, a world of possibilities, controllable and repeatable.  I highly recommend you evaluate a couple of them.  You can use them as dyes, either alone or as the first step in a multi layered process, and you can add it to shellac, some lacquers, and waterborne finishes to make toners.  Today I even learned you can add it to linseed, tung oil, and who knows how many others, to make a colored OB sealer.  

FYI, you can avoid blotching on cherry, maple, etc. if you spray on the dye, just enough to wet the wood.  

John

[Willyou]

I tried lye/water on cherry after reading about it.  It didn't do much of anything as best as I can remember.  Sometime later I started using Transtint dyes.  Wow, a world of possibilities, controllable and repeatable.  I highly recommend you evaluate a couple of them.  You can use them as dyes, either alone or as the first step in a multi layered process, and you can add it to shellac, some lacquers, and waterborne finishes to make toners.  Today I even learned you can add it to linseed, tung oil, and who knows how many others, to make a colored OB sealer.  

FYI, you can avoid blotching on cherry, maple, etc. if you spray on the dye, just enough to wet the wood.  

John

My understanding is that Transtint cannot be use in oil based products unless you use an additive made for the purpose. Check out their web page. I think this information is there somewhere.

[ed kerns]

I tried lye/water on cherry after reading about it.  It didn't do much of anything as best as I can remember.  Sometime later I started using Transtint dyes.  Wow, a world of possibilities, controllable and repeatable.  I highly recommend you evaluate a couple of them.  You can use them as dyes, either alone or as the first step in a multi layered process, and you can add it to shellac, some lacquers, and waterborne finishes to make toners.  Today I even learned you can add it to linseed, tung oil, and who knows how many others, to make a colored OB sealer.  

FYI, you can avoid blotching on cherry, maple, etc. if you spray on the dye, just enough to wet the wood.  

John

Thank you John. In my brief experimentation with lye on Cherry, the color was significant and came quickly. Almost like a magic trick. What it wasn't was controllable and I don't know about repeatable or even predictable, and that's what scares me. I'm sold. It's time to learn about dyes.

[ed kerns]

If I may offer some hints if you have not used dye. Transtint is, of course, a concentrated liquid. To minimize cost I started with a medium brown and the primary colors of red, blue, & yellow in addition to black. With these, you can mix most any color. Starting with the brown because most woodworking colors are some form of brown. I did later add green to my collection. Also, I quickly found that I get a more even application using water rather than alcohol. Hope that helps.

Thanks for this. Seems like good advice. I need to get beyond the mindset that $20+ for an itty bitty bottle is crazy expensive. I mean, it is - but I understand a little goes a long way!

[Willyou]

Some more suggestions if you don't mind. Yes, it is expensive but goes a long way. However, when learning and experimenting, you can use it up quickly. Start out with small amounts of water and use an eye dropper and small measuring spoons. You can get the color from the bottle one drop at a time, but you risk getting too much if you're not careful or accidently squeeze too hard. Take careful notes as you go. And remember that you won't see the actual color until you add the final clear finish on top. Keep a spray can of shellac or lacquer handy.
Get some measuring spoons that are labeled in ml and then figure out how many drops in a ml. Using the decimal system makes it very easy to scale up your formula when you get it worked out. I usually start with about 30-40 ml of water and then start adding color a few drops at a time and then test on a well sanded piece of project wood making about 1 sq in swatches. Number them and note the formula. When you get the color and intensity you want, total up the number of drops and ml you used to make it and multiply by what ever it takes to give you the quantity you need for the project.
Have fun.

PS. Be sure to wear rubber gloves or you will be washing your hands in bleach.

[fredhargis]

Ed, this isn't a suggestion but you can use potassium dichromate to darken cherry, and it's a lot safer than lye. Here's some info about it. I would probably still look at other options but this may do what you want.