#10
  
I am going to make a couple of cabinets for a friend and then clear coat all the cabinets and doors.  Some questions of the experts here.

1.  Is there a foolproof way to match the old color?  I assume no and that it is just trial and error.

2.  How should I prepare the old cabinets/doors to accept the new finish?  Sanding (pain) or some chemical prep?

3.  I have been spraying General finishes Enduro.  I really like it and I think it would be good for kitchen cabinets but what is the consensus here?  I really am not set up to spray old style lacquer but maybe water borne lacquer. 

Any tips, hints or tried and true techniques would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

Toney
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#11
  Kitchen cabinets redo iublue I am going to make a...
(05-03-2021, 02:38 PM)iublue Wrote: I am going to make a couple of cabinets for a friend and then clear coat all the cabinets and doors.  Some questions of the experts here.

1.  Is there a foolproof way to match the old color?  I assume no and that it is just trial and error.

2.  How should I prepare the old cabinets/doors to accept the new finish?  Sanding (pain) or some chemical prep?

3.  I have been spraying General finishes Enduro.  I really like it and I think it would be good for kitchen cabinets but what is the consensus here?  I really am not set up to spray old style lacquer but maybe water borne lacquer. 

Any tips, hints or tried and true techniques would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

Toney


Enduro what?  EnduroVar or Enduro Clear Poly, or ?  If you mean EnduroVar, it's pretty durable but it does not play nice over many other finishes.  I wouldn't use it unless you are starting with bare wood.  You might consider Enduro Clear Poly instead.  Not quite as durable as EnduroVar, but still very good and it does well over many other finishes.  No matter what you use, the existing cabinets need to be super clean.  You also need to test whatever finish you are considering to make sure it sticks.  A coat of Sealcoat shellac or vinyl sealer can help with an adhesion problem.  

Sorry, I know of no foolproof way to match colors.  A color wheel and experience help a lot, but it's still a suck and seek proposition.  Keep good notes and keep making samples until you are happy.  Those samples need to be from start to finish, too, because each step changes the color, depth, etc, so you won't know until it's done if it's right or wrong. The best way to start is to examine the cabinets you need to match to determine if the color is just natural wood + clearcoat, dye + clearcoat, stain + clearcoat, dye + staind + clearcoat, or something even more involved.  You need to match the color, but also how that color was derived.  A dyed piece looks very different from a stained one of the same color.  

Good luck. 

John
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#12
  RE: Kitchen cabinets redo jteneyck [quote='iublue' pid=...
(05-03-2021, 06:15 PM)jteneyck Wrote: Enduro what?  EnduroVar or Enduro Clear Poly, or ?  If you mean EnduroVar, it's pretty durable but it does not play nice over many other finishes.  I wouldn't use it unless you are starting with bare wood.  You might consider Enduro Clear Poly instead.  Not quite as durable as EnduroVar, but still very good and it does well over many other finishes.  No matter what you use, the existing cabinets need to be super clean.  You also need to test whatever finish you are considering to make sure it sticks.  A coat of Sealcoat shellac or vinyl sealer can help with an adhesion problem.  

Sorry, I know of no foolproof way to match colors.  A color wheel and experience help a lot, but it's still a suck and seek proposition.  Keep good notes and keep making samples until you are happy.  Those samples need to be from start to finish, too, because each step changes the color, depth, etc, so you won't know until it's done if it's right or wrong. The best way to start is to examine the cabinets you need to match to determine if the color is just natural wood + clearcoat, dye + clearcoat, stain + clearcoat, dye + staind + clearcoat, or something even more involved.  You need to match the color, but also how that color was derived.  A dyed piece looks very different from a stained one of the same color.  

Good luck. 

John

Thanks John,

Yes, it is Enduro Clear Poly.  I like how it sprays.

Sand for adhesion or is their a chemical to treat the base with?  Sanding would be a pain since they are arched raised panel doors.

Also, how do I handle the panels expanding and contracting?  If I spray over the top of the old finish and the panels expand or contract then it would seem that it would be noticable.

I appreciate the information.

Toney
Reply

#13
  RE: Kitchen cabinets redo iublue [quote='jteneyck' pi...
(05-04-2021, 05:37 PM)iublue Wrote: Thanks John,

Yes, it is Enduro Clear Poly.  I like how it sprays.

Sand for adhesion or is their a chemical to treat the base with?  Sanding would be a pain since they are arched raised panel doors.

Also, how do I handle the panels expanding and contracting?  If I spray over the top of the old finish and the panels expand or contract then it would seem that it would be noticable.

I appreciate the information.

Toney


Toney, got any photos of the existing cabinets?  

Number one is you have to get everything clean.  Wash them with warm water with Dawn in it.  If there are any suspect, greasy areas afterwards, wipe them with Naptha, then wash them again.  Grease and silicone are the enemy of a new finish.  

If you can scuff them with 400 or 600 grit sandpaper without damaging the existing I would do that.  By damage I mean cutting through any dye/stain layer and exposing raw wood.  If you can't scuff sand them then I would strongly consider a light coat of Sealcoat shellac cut 50% with DNA.  Test any process on the inside of a drawer front to make sure it works.  

With the door panels you have to avoid bridging of the finish between the panel and frame.  Keep the coats light and avoid spraying the joint as much as possible.  Spraying with the gun 90 degrees to the door also helps - ie - don't tip the gun to spray into the joint.  If you see any evidence of bridging you often can eliminate it before it sets up by spraying the joint with a rattle can of air with an extension tube in the nozzle or compressed air with a narrow tip.

John
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#14
  RE: Kitchen cabinets redo jteneyck [quote='iublue' pid=...
(05-05-2021, 11:38 AM)jteneyck Wrote: Toney, got any photos of the existing cabinets?  

Number one is you have to get everything clean.  Wash them with warm water with Dawn in it.  If there are any suspect, greasy areas afterwards, wipe them with Naptha, then wash them again.  Grease and silicone are the enemy of a new finish.  

If you can scuff them with 400 or 600 grit sandpaper without damaging the existing I would do that.  By damage I mean cutting through any dye/stain layer and exposing raw wood.  If you can't scuff sand them then I would strongly consider a light coat of Sealcoat shellac cut 50% with DNA.  Test any process on the inside of a drawer front to make sure it works.  

With the door panels you have to avoid bridging of the finish between the panel and frame.  Keep the coats light and avoid spraying the joint as much as possible.  Spraying with the gun 90 degrees to the door also helps - ie - don't tip the gun to spray into the joint.  If you see any evidence of bridging you often can eliminate it before it sets up by spraying the joint with a rattle can of air with an extension tube in the nozzle or compressed air with a narrow tip.

John

Thanks.  The bridging is what I was talking about and the air trick is something that I will try.
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#15
  Kitchen cabinets redo iublue I am going to make a...
I have zero knowledge of that product, but from what I've read on this forum, I would take what John says to the bank.

I know for a kitchen you want something very durable and resistant to various cleaners.

I just finished painting a whole kitchen & used pigmented lacquer paint. Topcoat with Target Coatings EM8000cv (+ crosslinker). I'm not totally sure what it is, but it looks like lacquer.

Its water based, which was a major part of my decision to go with it.

Sprays very nicely with very little thinning. I'm strictly an amateur but I am really happy with the results.
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#16
  Kitchen cabinets redo iublue I am going to make a...
John, can you explain further what bridging is?

Would the compressed air trick work for a run?
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#17
  RE: Kitchen cabinets redo rwe2156 John, can you explai...
(05-09-2021, 12:58 PM)rwe2156 Wrote: John, can you explain further what bridging is?

Would the compressed air trick work for a run?

Bridging is when the finish forms a continuous film across the gap where the panel fits into the frame.  When that happens it will prevent the panel from expanding/contracting as it wants to with the seasons.  This is one reason you often see cracks in the panels of old cabinet and house doors that have been painted multiple times.  

I doubt shooting a run with compressed air will help; likely to create more problems actually.  When I get runs I often wipe them off with my finger or a plastic scraper and quickly spray the area again, trying to feather in some finish so that it all dries together.  For runs I don't find before drying, I sand them off or cut them off with a razor blade or chisel.  They usually disappear with the next coat.  

John
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