#12
I have a drawer of double squares, marking knives, small rulers, and other metal tools. I've been wanting to organize and protect them. I ordered Kaizen foam, which seemed like an easy solution. A friend pointed out I might be inviting rust. What do you think?
Best,
Aram, always learning

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Antoine de Saint-Exupery


Web: My woodworking photo site
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#13
(01-15-2022, 03:36 PM)Aram Wrote: I have a drawer of double squares, marking knives, small rulers, and other metal tools. I've been wanting to organize and protect them. I ordered Kaizen foam, which seemed like an easy solution. A friend pointed out I might be inviting rust. What do you think?

I've had many tools stored on Kaizen foam for many years and no rust issues. I do have a dehumidifier in the shop and I also use VCi packs in each drawer. These pics were taken when I first organized the drawers: they are no nearly as organized now, unfortunately.

[attachment=39986]

[attachment=39987]
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#14
(01-15-2022, 05:44 PM)Philip1231 Wrote: I've had many tools stored on Kaizen foam for many years and no rust issues. I do have a dehumidifier in the shop and I also use VCi packs in each drawer. These pics were taken when I first organized the drawers: they are no nearly as organized now, unfortunately.

Thanks! Nice job, by the way.
Best,
Aram, always learning

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Antoine de Saint-Exupery


Web: My woodworking photo site
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#15
(01-15-2022, 05:52 PM)Aram Wrote: Thanks! Nice job, by the way.

Ha! That's the funny thing about Kaizen foam: it does work great, until you start adding stuff that really exceeds the capacity of the drawer, or change one tool for another with different geometry: then it gets way less nice.
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#16
As Phillip says, the best way to preserve metal tools is to climate control your shop.  I think wooden tool boxes help because they insulate and maybe protect or moderate big humidity swings (like from one rainy day).  Anecdotally, I've had good luck here in the North East which has big temp and humidity swings (and I have a lot of tools stored in un-climate control buildings).

Also anecdotally, rust seems to form where a tool is touching another surface.  Foam doesn't hold moisture, but moisture can collect there if you don't have good climate control.  The traditional solution is wool felt.  Was going to respond to Derek about his chisel box, but I'll say it here because he'll probably read this.  I think for stuff Derek is doing...he's pretty artsy, I think the Kaizen foam takes something away from his work. Its kinda ugly in my opinion. What I think Derek should have done is lay 100% wool felt down, then Kaizen with a layer of green felt glued on top and cut thru the kaizen and felt, so we'd only see the foam edge thru the thickness.  (glue the felt on with 3m super 77 adhesive). 

Only thing I would add and I'm not 100% I'm right about this: Its best to use 100% wool felt.  The theory is; wool contains natural oil (lanolin) which protects metal.  But maybe more importantly, its easy to dye and is color fast.  Synthetic felts, which are FAR more common, are apparently difficult to dye and strong, I think acidic agents (mordants), are used to make the synthetics color fast. The resulting fabric may not be pH neutral and could corrode your tools.

Green is really traditional. Kennedy tool boxes, which I think are cheap metal versions of Gerstners, used to have green felt. For boxes Kennedy didn't add felt to, they often painted the interiors green. But as you can imagine, you can buy felt in many many colors. It might be fun to try something. Found a picture from my machinists chest with the green felt just as an example.

Another traditional material pre-kaizen is cork.  I have cork in drawers, but I'm not sure its a good choice for corrosion prevention.  Might be okay in a climate controlled shop tho.  Also could be considerably cheaper.

Last, fitting out a "shadow box" with wood blocks, maybe the best choice for us.  Starrett used to deliver precision tools in mahogany boxes with no felt or anything inside before plastic boxes took over. Maybe that would work.
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#17
(01-15-2022, 06:25 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: ….  I think for stuff Derek is doing...he's pretty artsy, I think the Kaizen foam takes something away from his work. Its kinda ugly in my opinion. What I think Derek should have done is lay 100% wool felt down, then Kaizen with a layer of green felt glued on top and cut thru the kaizen and felt, so we'd only see the foam edge thru the thickness.  (glue the felt on with 3m super 77 adhesive)….

Thanks for the comments, Adam. I think it may help others with decision-making choices if I explain my use of the black stuff.

I will start by noting that the foam I used was not made by Kaizen, but a cheap imitation (all I could get at short notice), and it was horrible with which to work - the layers did not peel away easily, and the result was untidy to my eye. Still, it served its purpose, which was to secure small marking tools in a box for traveling (to wood shows or worksop demonstrations).

[Image: 13.jpg]

By contrast, the marking tools are stored in my workshop in a drawer under my bench. No Kaizen foam here. I actually dislike the look in a hand tool area where, at least for myself, I prefer it to represent the efforts of a woodworker. So I French Fitted the tools ….

[Image: 10.jpg]

[Image: 13.jpg]

These drawers are doubled up. Top level ..

[Image: Redo3.jpg]


Lower lever …

[Image: Redo2.jpg]

A lot of fitting out. I don’t plan to do it again.
Smile

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at www.inthewoodshop.com
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#18
Found a toolbox picture to show tool storage in plain wooden racks. I made these very crudely and quickly thinking that would have been the way they would have done it in the 18th c. I also suspected they wouldn't last or persist. Wrong on both counts.
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#19
(01-15-2022, 06:33 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Found a toolbox picture to show tool storage in plain wooden racks.  I made these very crudely and quickly thinking that would have been the way they would have done it in the 18th c.  I also suspected they wouldn't last or persist. Wrong on both counts.

Thanks, Adam, interesting information (and speculation) and nicely done boxes. If only you had some tools to store in them....
Best,
Aram, always learning

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Antoine de Saint-Exupery


Web: My woodworking photo site
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#20
adamcherubini Wrote:I think for stuff Derek is doing...he's pretty artsy, I think the Kaizen foam takes something away from his work. Its kinda ugly in my opinion. What I think Derek should have done is lay 100% wool felt down, then Kaizen with a layer of green felt glued on top and cut thru the kaizen and felt, so we'd only see the foam edge thru the thickness.
Not trying to be controversial, but just want to add a different opinion. I actually really prefer the look of the foam (or bare wood) to green felt. I really liked how Derek's box turned out. The black foam doesn't stand out and distract from the wood and joints.

I know some people love using green felt. I'm curious if there's any generational trend to that opinion, roughly tied to what was used in commercial tool boxes as each person first started with tools.

Tyler
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#21
(01-15-2022, 07:38 PM)OneStaple Wrote: Not trying to be controversial, but just want to add a different opinion. I actually really prefer the look of the foam (or bare wood) to green felt. I really liked how Derek's box turned out. The black foam doesn't stand out and distract from the wood and joints.

I know some people love using green felt. I'm curious if there's any generational trend to that opinion, roughly tied to what was used in commercial tool boxes as each person first started with tools.

Tyler

Yeah Tyler maybe the green is old fashioned and not “just better looking”. I get it. Thanks for the contrarian point of view.

Btw, our shadow boxes at work are blue with black under. Maybe I just associate that with “industrial”. I do dig the feel of lifting a shiny wrench out of a perfectly fitting foam cutout. Our boxes have the sensors that record when the tool is removed, which is pretty cool.

I could see how younger folks might think that’s super slick.
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Kaizen foam, metal tools, and rust?


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