Bosch (Reaxx) Lost Suit to SawStop news

[Steve N]

Nanny for fingers, perhaps sounds better?

[Admiral]

 Calling it a "finger nanny" just comes across as juvenile, IMO.

Hmmm, you might have a point.

[Johnbro]

You do know that Woodcraft is a hobbyist store.  A true equipment supply house may not have the same results with the amount of Sawstops that they sell.

I bought my SS from a "true equipment house" they cater to the trades and are the only local computerized saw sharpener around. They have PM, Delta, Freud, Bosch, Festool. They have zero hobby stuff. You go there for saw sharpening or building trades stuff. They only TS they carry is SawStop--they get them in from the warehouse almost daily and out they go. 

I took this picture at a commercial boat yard (I'm not ratting them out since this would no doubt get them in trouble with OSHA). They had 3 PM66 TS in the yard, all 3PH and none with guards. I don't know if they've switched to SS, I'm gonna ask. This is not a hobbyist, this is a professional doing something incredibly ill-advised. Somebody drops a board next to him, anything to startle him or break his concentration, and fingers are a-goin' flyin'. 

[JGrout]

so you agree if guards that exist on all table saws were used properly there would be no reason for more redundant safety?


SS states emphatically that finger sensing technology does not preclude the need for safety guards to be installed and used even on their saws.

Of the half dozen SS I have seen in working shops 1 had the guard in place 

What is up with that? 

Joe

[Bach1750]

No, I don't agree.  Why?  Reread your second and third comments.

...

What you note here is true not just with Sawstop's, but with all table saws.  So what's up with it?  That's how table saws get used, it's reality, not some dreamy "personal responsiblity".  Hence the need for a belt and suspenders approach.

[Steve N]

Never can be too careful can we. It looks like the shipyard guy has 10 fingers, how do you imagine that could possibly be? I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest he isn't cutting anything. He's setting up a sacrificial fence cut, so his guard won't fit in there. I would like to see this 10 fingered Pro proceed, I'm certain very little blade will be exposed if it is even a full thickness cut, and I also bet his fingers are NOT going to be anywhere near that blade. Got another picture??





Even an OSHA inspector wouldn't have a problem with what he is doing.

[JGrout]

Well see here is the rub and I call BS: 

OSHA and CSPC require ALL saws to have a physical guard in place. 

Does not matter what saw nor does it matter if it has finger nanny technology. 

They ALL must have a physical guard in place and supposedly functional in most cases. 

There are a few cuts that cannot be managed with a guard in place and those are exceptions.  In all cases that list is VERY short. 

So if you want to bulk all saws together under the same regulations what makes anyone thinks it is OK to throw the guard in the corner and forget about it? 

I think this is the single biggest fallacy in the way SS is promoted (at least on the sales floor) and by golly it is NOT true. 

So to put it in a no nonsense way: the technology does not hold enough sway with regulatory bureaucrats to EXCLUDE the one saw that is allegedly safer then ALL the others.

Maybe it is time for forums like these to start promoting proper use of a saw rather than justifying one that just has an extra level of safety.

that is the dreamy version of personal responsibility 

What do you think about that approach?

[Johnbro]

Never can be too careful can we. It looks like the shipyard guy has 10 fingers, how do you imagine that could possibly be? I'm going to go out on a limb, and suggest he isn't cutting anything. He's setting up a sacrificial fence cut, so his guard won't fit in there. I would like to see this 10 fingered Pro proceed, I'm certain very little blade will be exposed if it is even a full thickness cut, and I also bet his fingers are NOT going to be anywhere near that blade. Got another picture??





Even an OSHA inspector wouldn't have a problem with what he is doing.

Here's a close-up--sorry Photobucket won't link to full-size image. I took this photo BTW so I can verify the blade was spinning. Why else do you think I would take it? I was amazed someone would do this. Still think this is a safe procedure?

[JGrout]

what exactly was that operator cutting and to what end?

did he stop partway? then flip the piece end for end and finish the cut? 

did he keep going?

Do you have pictures of the blood trail? 

If you indeed saw this live there had to be a conclusion

share the entire story not just the sky is falling part.

[Johnbro]

what exactly was that operator cutting and to what end?

did he stop partway? then flip the piece end for end and finish the cut? 

did he keep going?

Do you have pictures of the blood trail? 

If you indeed saw this live there had to be a conclusion

share the entire story not just the sky is falling part.

Sorry, all I've got is the picture; this was taken more than 10 years ago so my memory is sketchy. To protect their anonymity I will just say I was photographing the shop (big shop, 100+ workers in various trades) and various people working. I thought it was pretty insane so I took the shot and moved on to get more pics. Later management told me some of the pics couldn't be used publicly because of potential issues with safety stuff (people not wearing safety glasses etc). This was a pretty buttoned up facility but when you have a lot of people scattered over a big area you can't police everyone every second. So folks will take shortcuts. I'm checking on an update if possible from them.