Ford F-150 Truck

[BrokenOlMarine]

It is my understanding that car dealers these days.. make very little of their total profit from new car sales. A large chunk of the dealer income is parts and service plus performing warranty work. We haven't had maintenance, other than warranty work, done at the dealerships, in a long time.

We have the work done at our local care care center, where we have done business for more than twenty years. I can trust the owner, they are twenty to thirty percent cheaper, and stand behind the work.

[MikeBob]

It is my understanding that car dealers these days.. make very little of their total profit from new car sales.  A large chunk of the dealer income is parts and service plus performing warranty work.  We haven't had maintenance, other than warranty work, done at the dealerships, in a long time.

We have the work done at our local care care center, where we have done business for more than twenty years.  I can trust the owner, they are twenty to thirty percent cheaper, and stand behind the work.

I would never use a dealer at there prices except for warranty or recall work.

[daddo]

Our 2013 Chevy Equinox transmission fluid schedule is 95,000 miles. I changed it to Valvoline synthetic and change it every 20,000 because it get dark- the dealer said dark is ok- I say it is not ok.  It's not that I don't trust them, I just don't believe them.

[pprobus]

Sorry to go off on a slight tangent, but wanted to comment about Mobil 1.  On my first Subaru I changed the factory oil to Mobile 1 at 1000 miles, and personally changed it and the filter every 7500 miles.  Immediately, the car started to use a quart of oil between changes.  I asked Subaru about it and they said it wasn't unusual.  Really?  My wife's BMW never, ever used a drop of (synthetic) oil.  

Being a creature of habit I did the same thing on my second Subaru - with the same results.  The first car was a turbo, the second wasn't, so no correlation there.  

On to my third Subaru I decided to just stick with conventional oil and changed it every 3000 miles.  It never used a drop for the 60K miles I had the car.  I'm doing the same with my 4th Subaru and, with only 14K miles on it, it has used no oil. 

I have no idea why this happened, but it happened.  All new Subaru engines will use synthetic oil.  I hope they found and fixed the problem.  

John

I think it was a Consumer Reports article that I read on the subject about a year ago (I saw it on Yahoo's homepage and clicked on it, so I am not 100% sure that it was CR's article).  There apparently is a widespread problem among many car manufacturers that new and what I would call "late model used" (this category is for cars that did not lose oil when "brand new", as I will define as 1 year or less old, but began to lose oil after the first year or after the first 10K miles) car engines lose oil due to one reason or another.  The article was more of a try to get car owners with this problem to speak up more loudly and perhaps get political pressure on manufacturers to address this issue, and was not trying to point to reasons for this oil loss (whether its being burned or lost through leaks, etc.).  Since I almost never heard of this issue back when I was growing up (70's and 80's, for new cars and cars with less than 50K miles it was not very common, obviously it was not uncommon in "high mileage" cars), I wonder if it could be the switch by manufacturers to lower and lower "cold" viscosity oils is the culprit (i.e. 10W-30 and 10W-40 was common back then, in the '90's through early 2000's 5W-30 seemed to be the prevalent oil and now it seems 0W-20/30/40, seems to be the prevalent oil).  In other words, the manufacturers might have just stamped everything to use 0W-20/30/40 oil, but have not changed the manufacturing process of their engines to tighten up the tolerances, so that the oil ends up leaking past the various seals while it is still below operating temperature.  Just a guess.

And I am not trying to disparage Subaru by implying they are one of the manufacturers with issues, it is pretty much all of them some to a lesser or greater degree but every manufacturer has at least model or two with the issue.  While I am mostly a dedicated Honda and Toyota person (again both manufacturers have models with this issue) I owned a Forrester for about 6 months before it got totaled by someone paying more attention to their phone instead of the red traffic light they ran.  I know I didn't own it long and its been well over 10 years, but I still miss that car, it was fun to drive and do some very mild "off-roading" with.

Paul

[jteneyck]

My cars from the 70's and 80's burned more oil than gas, so your experience was far different than mine.  I had a brand new VW that used a quart per 1K from the get go.  Eventually, VW had to recall those cars but I had already sold it by then. 

But this issue with Subaru is different.  The cars don't seem to use oil if you use dino oil, but they do if you use synthetic, even when brand new.  And I'm talking the same viscosity oil; I used the 5W-30 Subaru recommended whether regular or synthetic oil.  Someone mentioned earlier about the seals reacting differently to different types of oils; maybe that's it.  

The quest for greater mileage and lower emissions pushes the manufacturers to use lower and lower viscosity oils and that forces them to have better seals, tighter tolerances, pretty much everything.  In the end it's all good because we get engines that have long lives with minimal maintenance.  But along the way, there always are bumps in the road.  I love my Subaru's so I hope they have the new engines figured out because they all use synthetic oil only.  My 2016 Outback, still with the old style 6 cylinder is my favorite Subaru yet.  Subaru's Eyesight technology is amazing and I doubt I'll ever buy another vehicle unless it has something equivalent.  Their GPS interface, however, needs help.  Google Maps on my phone is far easier to use and superior in every way.  

John

[meackerman]

You should try the navigation app that my 2016 Tundra has.  its like it came from the 1990's.  Its definitely not one of Toyota's better products, more of something I would expect from a 3rd world auto manufacturer.

[geek2me]

Ford recommends these every 100,000 miles and the dealer was telling me that they recommend it every 30,000.

Is that the regular or the "severe service" interval?  Nearly all driving in the US falls under "severe service" - but if you follow the severe service schedule you should be fine.

[geek2me]

I do believe the Amsoil transmission fluid is #1 and Mobile1 is as good as one needs.

I hope I didn't just jinx myself.  

Yeah, Amsoil products are best avoided, a lot of issues with them.

FWIW, some people think oil change intervals can be extended with synthetics, but that is not correct.  Oil needs to be changed because it gets dirty, most due to combustion by-products,a nd it gets dirty at about the same rate regardless of the oil type.  Stay with the manufacturer's severe service change interval and you should be fine.

[geek2me]

Immediately, the car started to use a quart of oil between changes. ...I hope they found and fixed the problem.  

It is not a "problem" - the industry standard for oil consumption is one quart per thousand miles - so your oil consumption is well within spec if you are only using a quart per oil change.

[jteneyck]

Yeah, Amsoil products are best avoided, a lot of issues with them.

FWIW, some people think oil change intervals can be extended with synthetics, but that is not correct.  Oil needs to be changed because it gets dirty, most due to combustion by-products,a nd it gets dirty at about the same rate regardless of the oil type.  Stay with the manufacturer's severe service change interval and you should be fine.

Perhaps the service intervals should not be extended if you use synthetic oil, but the normal service interval given by the manufacturers I'm familiar with is longer for their motors that are built to use synthetic oil.  My wife's BMW, which uses synthetic only, has a service interval of over 12K miles, and is adjusted downward by some algorithm the car's computer uses based on actual driving behavior.  And there is no severe duty interval - the car monitors itself and determines when the oil needs to be changed.   

Changing oil more frequently is never a bad thing, but it can be costly and unnecessary.  In Germany, a quart of synthetic oil costs, hang on to your wallet, around $20/L.  You don't want to be changing your oil any more often than necessary when it costs that much.  And for those who don't change their own, every oil change requires a trip to the dealer or oil change place which adds to the cost and inconvenience.  

It is not a "problem" - the industry standard for oil consumption is one quart per thousand miles - so your oil consumption is well within spec if you are only using a quart per oil change.

Using a quart of oil per thousand miles may be the "industry standard" but definitely is not normal; it is the threshold below which they won't do anything to remedy the problem.  And that was the threshold that resulted in a class action suit against VW back in the early 80's to recall and repair all the engines that used oil like fuel.  

John