Cost of HVAC replacement

[daddo]

Good gracious, $7K seems way, way high for anyplace in Texas.  When you consider it's less than a week of work to install and the installer's cost for the equipment is in the $2K range, maybe $2.5K if Carrier, etc. $5K would be really high for the labor, the equivalent of about $260K a year, way high for an HVAC contractor.

Around here, one would pay around $5K for a Carrier system IF they do all the work you list.

Given the notable Carrier issues in the last few years or so, though, in my opinion one is better off going with a better brand that does not overcharge for the name such as Rheem.  That expert-installed $4K Rheem system with a 20 year to lifetime warranty will likely be a more economical option for many people.

If you want to go cheap, pay the $2K to $3K to have a Goodman installed.  Curiously people seem to be having mostly positive experiences with Goodman these days, used to be everyone thought they were junk.  The big difference in cost is that Goodman doesn't have a 90% profit margin like Carrier.

  First off, we have not seen his job and have no idea what we are talking about price wise since we have No IDEA what is involved, especially with a zoning system. The prices are what to expect to go to. Don't forget the new codes- some updates cost money and are mandatory- some cities have their own requirements!
 If you can get a 5 ton, 14 seer Furnace, Coil, Condenser, Filter system, thermostat, venting/pipe and materials for 2k- you are a ingeniously cruel bargainer and my wholesale prices are a scam. The difference in the cost of a 3 ton to a 5 ton can be big and so cannot compare the costs.
 
Go to CL and get one of those guys to install your system if you want cheap. But don't bother to call him when it quits working- he won't answer the your calls. Just last year I was busy fixing and re-installing such bad jobs because they wanted to save money. I hear it all the time- "I knew better".....

  I don't sell cheap equipment, nor do I do a cheap job. A good contractor evaluates your home beyond the load calculation and advises upgrades to save you permanent money and to get your home COMFORTABLE- not just cool.  The craiglist guy just wants the job done and to get to the next one.

 Let me ask you; I want to buy a new truck- what will it cost? You cannot answer that! You haven't any information on what size, tonnage, engine, options, warranty, etc.    Case and point!

 I do get tired of these arguments, time after time, because it makes me look like a jerk, but really, and with respect- do you want advice from someone with 43 years in this business or a random home owner who bought a system once?

 Find a contractor that is well established, does the load calculations, advises you about windows, attic insulation and other upgrades as an option that will save you money for years to come and reduce the size of your HVAC system. OR- take option 2 and do nothing and keep what size system you have, it's your choice.  I have customers who had $350.00 elect bills and after insulation and duct/window sealing and a new system- $100.00 highest bill- she bought a new car. My house used to have a 4ton system that barely kept up and with high bills- now I use a 2.5 ton system- it cools much better and lower bills- and my savings continue year after year. Did your HVAC guy do that? Did you get a 4" filter system that keeps the indoor unit clean? I have 20+ year old air handlers that have never needed cleaning- dogs, cats or not.

 What is that worth to you?

[blackhat]

You and I are not the Walmart of our industry.

[Robert Adams]

I never understood how these guys could quote such cheap prices. When I was doing commercial refrig we did the odd house unit replacement for someone but often there would be bids for less than the equipment cost us. The only thing I could come up with was they were installing units that were stolen from new construction. No evidence and never saw one oof their installs but that's what I think was happening.

[geek2me]

Let me ask you; I want to buy a new truck- what will it cost? You cannot answer that!

That seems like a fair analogy - but you have not provided as much information as the OP.  Given the needed load capacity, we can give you a pretty good idea what your truck would cost.

That's really my point - an experienced installer should be able to get within 10% or so of the real estimate just by knowing the size of  the house and some general information.  They would want to see it to give a final quote, but should be able to estimate pretty close from a verbal description.

[geek2me]

I never understood how these guys could quote such cheap prices. When I was doing commercial refrig we did the odd house unit replacement for someone but often there would be bids for less than the equipment cost us.

Yes, it's those large markups you mentioned earlier.  Some contractors get better pricing, for a host of reasons.  One local in this area is paying less than half what others are paying - but they are a little three person shop that hustles and does a LOT of installs.  Buy enough units in a year and the pricing gets pretty good.  For your installs, you likely were not buying enough to get good discounts.

[daddo]

Yes, it's those large markups you mentioned earlier.  Some contractors get better pricing, for a host of reasons.  One local in this area is paying less than half what others are paying - but they are a little three person shop that hustles and does a LOT of installs.  Buy enough units in a year and the pricing gets pretty good.  For your installs, you likely were not buying enough to get good discounts.

  Less than half of contractors price? I'm sorry, but that right there proves you have no idea what you are talking about or someone has mislead you.

[geek2me]

  Less than half of contractors price? I'm sorry, but that right there proves you have no idea what you are talking about or someone has mislead you.

Not at all, most people don't realize the margins and markups in this equipment.  Having been on the production side, I can assure that a 50% discount is not all that unusual IF there is enough volume.  You probably have just not bought high enough volumes to see the larger discounts.

[daddo]

Like the late and perhaps great Alan Watts said; "When your silent- it speaks".

[geek2me]

thooks

Even the National Accounts such as Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Lowe's, etc., don't get 50% discounts on packaged DX (el cheapo) equipment.  They probably see 25% at most.

I'm curious why you think that - Walmart definitely gets better margins than that, for example.  Again, this is my personal experience as well as the experience of others.  Your experience could be different, but unless you have sold to or bought for Walmart, you would not have the facts.

It's the simple "facts of life" for manufacturing - most of the cost is in the setup and overhead.  For example, it costs us about 1% more to make 1000 units instead of 100.  Make a deal for 100,000 units and you get great pricing, in the range of 10% of the cost per unit at the 100 piece quantity.

For example, a furnace that sells to disto at $2000 has about $150 in manufacturer's material cost.  Buy enough and we make great money wholesaling them around $200 because the materials cost goes down to $75 or so.

[daddo]

Quote; "For example, a furnace that sells to disto at $2000 has about $150 in manufacturer's material cost.  Buy enough and we make great money wholesaling them around $200 because the materials cost goes down to $75 or so."

 
  By your comment of "...paying less than 1/2...",  That $2,000.00 furnace would cost me maybe $800.00. Not going to happen- has never happened even when bidding on 80 systems for an apartment building. Even though I already got a better price due to being specific and dealing with them for two decades, the best I could get was an additional 9% not 60%.

 I'd like to know what one average company is doing 1,000 units much less 100,000 units (not probable at all).