Turbinaire Spray system

[Rob Young]

oops, just realized Rob has you covered.

Looping the cup hose is a good idea.  My gun didn't originally come with a back-flow valve but instead, had a loop in the hose.  I felt the hose was too short, the loop should sag a bit, so I bought the valves.  

Interestingly, the valves from link above & the included hose as they orient to my gun, need to have a loop put into the hose to take up slack so it isn't flapping everywhere.  Or just cut the hose shorter...

[Snipe Hunter]

Unfortunately, like all gun parts. Those valves are pricey. It all adds up when you are using several guns a day and as soon as you accidentally lay the gun down or tip it, the valves clog. Painters just buy a bunch of hose and throw a loop or two in it. It won't prevent finish from getting into the gun but it will give you a visual as to finish being inside the hose and let you know when it's time to put in a new piece of hose. You'll have to tip it quite a few times to clog the hose. I think I'm paying about 20 cents a foot for the hose which will last a month easily vs 7 dollars a valve which might clog tomorrow. If they were cheaper, which the should be, I'd use the valves.

[Rob Young]

Unfortunately, like all gun parts. Those valves are pricey. It all adds up when you are using several guns a day and as soon as you accidentally lay the gun down or tip it, the valves clog. Painters just buy a bunch of hose and throw a loop or two in it. It won't prevent finish from getting into the gun but it will give you a visual as to finish being inside the hose and let you know when it's time to put in a new piece of hose. You'll have to tip it quite a few times to clog the hose. I think I'm paying about 20 cents a foot for the hose which will last a month easily vs 7 dollars a valve which might clog tomorrow. If they were cheaper, which the should be, I'd use the valves.

Near as I can tell from the ones I bought, they are pretty much the same as one uses in aquarium pumps.  Seems like something to be bought in bulk...

Quick google pops up these at 6 for $10.  I think with an afternoon of searching one could find better ones (no barbs on the fittings on these) and find somebody that sells them by the case.  http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pr...atid=10109

McMasterCarr search pops up this page -- more expensive but moving in the right direction:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#air-check-valves/=17o0q8z

Anyway, just a thought if somebody is ever bored enough and wants to start a checkvalve empire by importing them by the case from China.

[7DWW]

Not to start an argument, but I had used several different siphon guns for years (because that's how I learned). I met a finisher on a job and watched him do some amazing repair work on Walnut wall in which the millwork fabricator did not order the panels sequenced. Carl turned them into sequenced wall panels. Anyway was fortunate enough to pick his brain and he was happy to share his knowledge. 

   All that to say I went and bought an Iwata LPH 400 gravity feed and will never go back. I know its a little pricey but the difference was unbelievable. Not only does it lay down a beautiful finish with infinite adjustments but it is so easy to clean and switch between products. The siphon guns...if all 600 parts are not meticulously cleaned for 10-20 minutes after almost every use, would always become problematic. Any gravity gun (not just the Iwata) can break down in seconds. Wash out the cup with about 2oz Laq Thinner throw the tip of the needle, the cap and nozzle in another 2oz of thinner and you're done. next time you spray reassemble in less than a minute and go. 

   Should you budget allow I would highly recommend picking up a decent gravity feed even the HF one is pretty decent.

[Herb]

You have piqued my interest. The one on Amazon has no cup.  What cup do you recommend and  where did you buy yours. My finishing experience is very limited and I hardly know anything of a siphon feed let alone a gravity feed.  I tend buy tools and it is years later that I use them, and then not often.  Funds are limited, but may can manage.

Thanks,

[7DWW]

I bought mine on amazon also it was within a couple dollars of the best price I found.
  I also bought this cup...

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000...UTF8&psc=1

It's a little bulky and not great for tight spaces but I've gotten used to it. 

  IMHO the only disadvantage to the gravity feed VS. a siphon is being able to invert the gun to spray upwards. You can invert with a good siphon gun with adjustable stem, but with the gravity feed, Nope!

  The transfer rate of a gravity feed is much better than a siphon. Which results in less over-spray/less material 

   I now own 3 of the Iwata's,  one is for stain, one for sealers and clear coats and the other for pigmented lacquers.  

 If your funds are limited you may want to look at the Astro which is also a really good gun for the price,

 https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H...UTF8&psc=1

or as I said even the HF gravity gun. I would recommend getting an aluminum cup for any of them as they are just easier to clean.  if you buy the Astro with the same AL cup, you will need this fitting:

 https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B002...UTF8&psc=1

I would stay away from any Binks model guns under $400.

With a 1.4mm tip you can spray just about anything for woodworking finishes. 

Full disclosure...I own a small architectural millwork fabrication company and do this for a living so time is money.  But quality is everything, and it keeps the money coming.
When I did this type of work for myself or small side jobs I used the siphon gun but as I progressed I learned there are just better ways to do many things that are just easier, more consistent and reliable.  Your spray gun decision is no different than a Ryobi Table saw or a 1990's Unisaw.
  

    Good luck with your decisions and happy spraying.... or cleaning

[Snipe Hunter]

7DWW

You are talking apples and oranges. The Iwata and Astro you linked are not a turbine guns. Of coarse they will spray better than a turbine gun. So will the $19.00 Harbor Freight purple gun.

The reason painters use siphon guns is that solids and metal flakes fall to the bottom of the cup so the first pull of a trigger can blow that all out and ruin a paint job with one squeeze.

Also, many painters spray without the luxury of a paint booth, even professional painters. Especially outdoors. Most folks get best results with their conventional/conversion guns by turning up the pressure above 10psi. Once it's above 10psi, it is no longer an HVLP/LVLP gun, it becomes a traditional gun. The EPA is so far up a professional painters rump that they (including me) can't afford to be caught shooting pressures above 10psi. It's a $25,000 fine here and they shut you down till you pay it. Not all states comply with the "National Rule" but it is just a matter of time before all states will comply.

Sure, you can get a better finish, particularly with automotive finishes with a conventional or conversion gun but they aren't always practical. And, in the right hands and a little bit of knowledge and practice, a quality turbine finish gun can rival any conversion/conventional gun.

Another downfall using conversion/conventional guns is the over-spray. Decent Turbine guns have far less over-spray than conversion/conventional guns. I can paint a bumper and only mask off about 12" around the job. I need to mask off a minimum of 4ft (generally more) using a conversion/conventional gun. Because of the lower over-spray, I use a lot less finish and less masking supplies so I'm saving a good deal of money. In my case (automotive painting), I'm paying over $300 a gallon for clear and close to $20 an ounce ($4.00 reduced) for my base-coats and primers. The last thing I want to do is blow it past my work like a conversion/conventional gun will.

The problem with acceptance of Turbine guns is that there isn't a lot of press about them and there aren't a lot of users so it can be hard to decide which one to buy and which ones work well. In my profession, most of us use them. Almost all of us use 3M AccuSpray guns and turbines. My Turbine is 12 years old and still going strong with daily use. They sort of by default fell into the laps of home woodworkers and hobbiests because they are so compact and there is literally zero maintenance on the turbine aside from swapping out a filter once in a while and it can be put away in a cupboard. I buy my filters from Home Depot, they're a standard 6" diameter filter. The decent turbines and guns (Apollo, AccuSpray, Fuji etc) are pretty good for wood finishes and not too bad with the high end automotive finishes. Some are available as gravity feed. I use an Apollo gravity feed for clear coats. I don't like the gun itself, it's finicky and over engineered but it can lay out a clear coat almost as well as a high end conversion gun. In my business, it isn't practical to lug around a large compressor. It also isn't practical in many home shop environments.