Built in Bookcases

[Cooler]

Most of what Sylvius said, I would make one change. I had to do this for a "customer" once who wanted the same basic idea. The 4' span is a bit much for ply, heck even for solid wood if the books are heavy. I used the pin hole idea as well, but I went one step further. Using wood (or better metal, if it fits in your budget) run a dowel the length of the opening, dropping the openings to 3' 11-1/2" (to allow for 4' dowels). Use these to span the distance, let the shelf rest on top. If you dado the back that can be used to support the self in the rear, otherwise use two dowels (one in front one in back). Metal has the advantage that you can cut dados into the bottom of the shelves for the dowels to sit in and be hidden. With metal a 1/4" dowel would suffice, though you can go to 3/8" if you really expect heavy books.

Here is the link for the Sagulator.  He can check the specs himself:  https://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/

But using 3/4" thick plywood 12" deep by  48" wide the load carrying capability is listed at 35 pounds per linear foot on the shelf.    The total sag would be 0.080" (about  5/64").

It does sound like a lot of weight for those shelves.  That would be 140 total pounds and I am having a hard time accepting that.  But maybe attaching to the uprights adds more strenght than I imagined.

The rating drops to 7 pounds per linear foot (28 total pounds) if the shelves are sitting on pins (floating) and not attached to the uprights.

[Gurubandhu]

What do you plan to use the desk for? How large of a television are you planning for? What is the general style of the house and furniture?

Thanks for the reply.  I plan to use the desk for writing and computer so I would not like cabinets under the desk.  There is an outlet on the wall next to the area I would have the desk.  The TV is 15" deep, 20" high and 22" wide.   At some time I would want to get a bigger screen that is not so deep but have to wait for finances.  We live in Alaska and our house is somewhat rustic with cedar walls.  The house is an A frame with 20' ceiling and the shelves would be in that room.  I think the idea of using pins and holes for the shelves is a good one.  What size dowels would work well?

Thanks
GB

[Gurubandhu]

Someone asked what tools I have.  I have a Makita worm drive circular saw, a B&D Firestorm router, for ripping I was planning to clamp a straightedge to the board I am cutting for a guide, an electric planer but I do not think that would work well for plywood,  Milwaukee drill that is very good, cordless DeWalt impact driver. belt sander and palm sander and assorted hand tools.

Thanks
GB

[Cooler]

Thanks for the reply.  I plan to use the desk for writing and computer so I would not like cabinets under the desk.  There is an outlet on the wall next to the area I would have the desk.  The TV is 15" deep, 20" high and 22" wide.   At some time I would want to get a bigger screen that is not so deep but have to wait for finances.  We live in Alaska and our house is somewhat rustic with cedar walls.  The house is an A frame with 20' ceiling and the shelves would be in that room.  I think the idea of using pins and holes for the shelves is a good one.  What size dowels would work well?

Thanks
GB

You probably want to use shelf pins.  They come in 5mm and 1/4" sizes and there are shelf drilling fixtures that assure proper alignment.

Kreg makes one, which I have.  I ganged 2 of them together to improve efficiency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u4TIeQQL9U

You can buy the jig almost anywhere.  But do not buy the pins at the local hardware store (or from Home Depot).  Much, much cheaper options are available online.

This is the most commonly seen version:



These are supposed to carry more weight.

[jteneyck]

Someone asked what tools I have.  I have a Makita worm drive circular saw, a B&D Firestorm router, for ripping I was planning to clamp a straightedge to the board I am cutting for a guide, an electric planer but I do not think that would work well for plywood,  Milwaukee drill that is very good, cordless DeWalt impact driver. belt sander and palm sander and assorted hand tools.

Thanks
GB

With those tools in mind you need to keep it simple.  I think you should make straight forward boxes from 3/4" plywood with no face frames.  You can use 1/4" plywood for the backs to save some money, but 1/2" is better.  You can either make four 8' tall cabinets or separate base and upper cabinets.  Separate base and upper cabinets will be a lot easier to handle and also be easier to fabricate if you want the base cabinets wider, which you certainly do for the desk and TV cabinets anyway, so I would go that route.  In any case, build a separate base, as described earlier, and screw or glue that to the floor.  Get that level and then just set your finished cabinets on top and secure to each other and to the base and wall behind.  4" is a common base height, but it can be any height you want.  Table/desk height is usually 29" so if you use a 4" base your base cabinets would be 25" tall to the top.  I would base cabinet sides 23-3/4" so you can get 4 pcs. out of a sheet of plywood.  Add a 3/4" top and you are at 28-3/4" to the top of the desk.  Adjust the base height if you want something different.  

As others have said 12" uppers is more than deep enough for books, and also allows maximum yield from your plywood.   

With no face frames you can use peel and stick or iron on veneer tape to cover the exposed edges of the plywood where it will show.  Whatever won't show gets nothing.  I would make as many of the shelves fixed as possible because it makes the boxes more rigid (which you'll need since there are no face frames) and those shelves will support more weight than adjustable ones.  If you really want to use a 4' span you need to add additional support under the front of the shelves, even for a fixed shelf.  A piece of 3/4" wood of the same species as your plywood and about 2" wide works well.  Cut a 1/4" x 1" rabbet in it and glue it to the front edge of the shelf.  You can route 1/4" deep dados in the cabinet sides for the shelves or just glue and screw them in place.  You can cover any exposed screw heads with a trim piece, plugs, or peel and stick dots, whatever suites you.  


You can mount your slab plywood doors to these Euro style cabinets with Euro hinges.  They are cheap and easy to use and allow for a lot of adjustability.  All you need is a 35" Forstner bit to drill the cup holes.   You can edge band the doors with veneer tape just like for the edges of the cabinets.  This will be a much easier approach than trying to make sliding doors.  I recommend you use the half overlay style hinges as they allow for the most slop.   

John

[Gurubandhu]

John,

This looks pretty doable.  I have some questions.  I guess I may be missing something or maybe my math skills are left behind in middle school.  4" base + 23 3/4" low cabinet + 3/4" top 28 1/2.  Can you explain.  Why 23 3/4 and not 24"?  I want to use a chair under the desk when using the desk so I would not want the front part of the frame there so how would I attach the the cabinet to the frame?  The whole wall that the backs of the cabinets will be set is a rock wall that is 3' high with a 2" ledge above it and the wooden wall that goes all the way to the ceiling.  The only places to attach are the floor and the edge of the ledge.  I could put  a cleat high on the wall  and then a piece of wood attached to the top of the bookcase to attach the bookcase to the wall.   Do you suggest having a recessed kickplate or having the frame flush with the front of the cabinet?  It would seem to me that when attaching the bookcases to the top of the cabinet the bookcases would not have a bottom so as to have full use of the top.  What is the best way to attach the bookcase to the top of the cabinet.  About 30 years ago I did build a set of drawers to hold things.  I did not have a table saw as I still do not have one.  I made the whole thing out of 3/4" pine and even the divisions between the drawers so the drawers fit snugly with no slides or rails.  I used corner molding on all the corners to hide the joints so it has always worked pretty good and looks pretty good (antiquish)  but is not what I would call fine woodworking.  At this point, these suggestions seem like they will fit my needs. 

Thanks
GB

[jteneyck]

23-3/4" so you can get 4 pieces out of a 96" long piece of plywood.  The sawblade will take 1/8" kerf, so you can't get four 24" long pieces.  
What frame are you talking about?  What I proposed are frameless cabinets; w/o a table saw you would have great difficulty building face frames.  


Where the counter top spans between the adjacent cabinets where the desk is you would have 27-3/4" knee height with no stretcher under the top, but I would add a 2 to 2-1/2" wide stretcher.  You'll still have 25-1/4" knee height which is plenty.  Measure a table or two you have and you will know what dimensions work.  
If you have a 2" ledge at the top of your 3' high stone wall, then your proposal to put a cleat up above it makes sense.  Attach the lower cabinets to the base and the upper cabinets to the lower cabinets and the cleat.  All good.  I would make the upper cabinets with a bottom.  I know that means the countertop will have a "step" in it, but you'll still have full depth and, more importantly, the upper cabinets will be far more rigid and easier to attach to the lowers.  

John

[Gurubandhu]

John,

I guess I did not use the right term for "frame". I actually meant the base that is 4 " high. Do you suggest toe "nailing" it in with screws to secure it to the floor? Should the base be recessed like a kickplate or flush with the face/doors? Would it be best to use metal 90 degree angles to secure or cleats secured to the floor? What do you think about using a 1x3 to secure the bookcases to the lower cabinets and attach the bookcases to the cabinet top ?

I think with the help on this forum that I am getting a better idea of what to do. One reason for using 4 - 4' cabinets is that I would only have about 7" left on one wall. The wall that is on the side of the cabinet sides is again a rock wall so it would be very hard to attach anything to the wall since it is over 10' high. There is a gap as I mentioned and that wall angles out about 30 degrees since it has a prow that angles away from the cabinets. What could I put there to fill that space that would look okay? I appreciate your help.

GB

GB

[jteneyck]

GB, level the base on the floor with shims.  Put some construction adhesive between the shims and base so they don't move afterwards.  I make little L-shaped brackets out of 3/4" plywood, about 3" wide x 4" high, with a foot about 3" long and screw/glue those to the frame around the perimeter every couple of feet and to the floor.  I add one at the center of every cross stretcher, too.  You could use metal L's if you want, but plywood is cheaper here.  

I would make the frame about 3 - 4" shallower than your base cabinets so that you end up with a toe kick.  Think of these cabinets similar to kitchen cabinets, where you have to walk right up to the lower ones to be able to reach into the shallower uppers.  That's how it will be when you want to get to the books on your upper cabinets.  

You can fasten the bookcases to the lower cabinets any way you want, but I think you'll find it easier to make the bookcases with a solid bottom and easy to attach them to the lower cabinets by screwing up through the top of the base cabinets and into those bottoms.  If your bookcases have no bottoms the sides will be unsupported below the lowest shelf except by the back.    

As for the rock wall on one side, I agree, it would be hard to attach anything to it especially considering it isn't relatively square. So rather than trying to fit a solid cabinet up close to it, you might consider building a cabinet maybe 16" wide, with only one side, a bottom, and a back. Then fit fixed shelves into them with the end of the shelves following the general contour of the rock wall with a gap of maybe 1/2". Do the same with the end of the countertop that fits against the rock wall.

John