Generator Questions

[pprobus]

About the Generlink, I did a quick search. Not my power company, but this is what my own power company installed:

https://steubenrec.coop/generlinktm-transfer-switch

For portable generator users, this is what I recommend. Then just load shed the circuits you don't need in your main panel.

[fredhargis]

I have a 22KW Generac that is hooked to a propane tank. Around me are quite a few houses with a similiar setup. No doubt this is an expensive way to run one, but it works. I have a dedicated 500 gallon tank which is estimated to run it for 7 days at 50% load. A 12 day outage isn't in the cards for that setup unless you can get the tank refilled quickly (I can) or start with a bigger tank; several folks around us have 1000 gallon tanks. I should mention we have 2 tanks at the house, the 500 is dedicated to the generator and I have a 330 for house/shop heating, range, etc. I keep thinking about having them hooked together with shutoff valves so in case of an emergency i can switch between the 2. One other thing, you could go LP and use a smaller generator that will run longer on the supply. But no way would I want to try 12 days with a portable generator.

[MarkSLSmith]

Thanks for the replies.  They help to improve the logic.  

Here are some additional comments and clarifications.

1. I'm not planning for a 12 day outage.  I'm assuming (fingers crossed) that Helene was a once in a lifetime event.  If not, we probably all have bigger problems than my erroneous selection of a generator system.

2. That said, I would say that 5-7 days is  realistic albeit still somewhat improbable.

3. The comment by Mr. Eaten by Limestone is good.  My goal is primarily to run the well pump, so as to be able to flush toilets and take an occasional cold shower.  When not running the well pump, I need enough power to run a portable AC unit in one room, like the bedroom at night.  We don't have a standalone freezer, and at any given time the maximum loss in the refrigerator is probably $500.  Food loss is less when we are away, as we tend to "eat down" the contents prior to departure.

4. I hear the arguments for whole house systems, but I'm just not willing to spend upwards of $20k to install one.

5. Fuel.  I have new appreciation for this.  I hadn't considered a multifuel unit, but gas/propane is at least more flexible.  NG is not an option here.  

6. Fuel consumption.  I think one new understanding for me is that I need to be careful with this.  If the unit is too big, it will use a lot more gasoline.  The Generac model that I was looking at probably falls into the category.  The Westinghouse model (thanks Mr. Don_M) seems better for fuel consumption.  I don't want to install and plumb a 500 gallon propane tank just to run a whole house generator, but I'm not averse to a couple of 20 lb portable tanks.

7.  Fuel storage.  My notional plan was to keep 4 or 5 5-gal gasoline containers in the shed, and rotate their usage to that the fuel stays fresh.  My lawnmower needs about 3 gallons for one cutting session.

Thanks for the discussion, and I look forward to additional comments.

Mark

[jteneyck]

Thanks for the replies.  They help to improve the logic.  

Here are some additional comments and clarifications.

1. I'm not planning for a 12 day outage.  I'm assuming (fingers crossed) that Helene was a once in a lifetime event.  If not, we probably all have bigger problems than my erroneous selection of a generator system.

2. That said, I would say that 5-7 days is  realistic albeit still somewhat improbable.

3. The comment by Mr. Eaten by Limestone is good.  My goal is primarily to run the well pump, so as to be able to flush toilets and take an occasional cold shower.  When not running the well pump, I need enough power to run a portable AC unit in one room, like the bedroom at night.  We don't have a standalone freezer, and at any given time the maximum loss in the refrigerator is probably $500.  Food loss is less when we are away, as we tend to "eat down" the contents prior to departure.

4. I hear the arguments for whole house systems, but I'm just not willing to spend upwards of $20k to install one.

5. Fuel.  I have new appreciation for this.  I hadn't considered a multifuel unit, but gas/propane is at least more flexible.  NG is not an option here.  

6. Fuel consumption.  I think one new understanding for me is that I need to be careful with this.  If the unit is too big, it will use a lot more gasoline.  The Generac model that I was looking at probably falls into the category.  The Westinghouse model (thanks Mr. Don_M) seems better for fuel consumption.  I don't want to install and plumb a 500 gallon propane tank just to run a whole house generator, but I'm not averse to a couple of 20 lb portable tanks.

7.  Fuel storage.  My notional plan was to keep 4 or 5 5-gal gasoline containers in the shed, and rotate their usage to that the fuel stays fresh.  My lawnmower needs about 3 gallons for one cutting session.

Thanks for the discussion, and I look forward to additional comments.

Mark

$20K or more for a whole house generator?  Really.  I paid about $7K for the 17 KW Generac unit with auto transfer switch.  It's hard to imagine they have tripled in price in 10 years.  22 hours w/o power when I was away from home, but my wife was not, when the power went out.  Hottest day of the year, of course.  And that got me thinking about what would happen if we both were away for a week, or even a couple of days, in the winter.  I got the generator.  Since then, we're never been w/o power for more than 4 - 6 hours.  I call it my $7K insurance policy.  

John  

 

John

[fredhargis]

John hit it, a whole house system that costs $20K is likely plated in gold. Ours is 7 years old and was $6K back then. That was for everything, the genny, transfer switch and installation.

[R Clark]

I have essentially the same setup as Fred, it's about the same age, and cost $5500 installed.  We already had propane at our rural acreage (1000 gal tank).

If the OP chooses to go with a bit smaller generator and fuel it with 20lb propane bottles, some research will need to be done prior to purchase.  I don't know where the break point is, but 20 lb propane bottles may or may not be suitable as the fuel source.  It has to do with the ability of smaller bottles to deliver enough propane gas to the unit being fueled.  For example, my Generac whole house generator will NOT run on small bottles; the fuel source must be a larger tank so that the liquid inside has enough surface area to vaporize sufficient gas for the motor being fueled.

I love having a generator, and my wife is much more comfortable with it being fully automatic.  That was a big thing for me.  This whole house unit with auto-transfer switch replaced an old unit that had a manual process with 13 steps, and then would't not power much at all.  It doesn't make a difference if we're home or not, it just works.

[BrentDH]

Not intending to sidetrack this conversation but this thread has reminded me to be thankful for my situation. I am a bit surprised that so many here have such unreliable electricity sources. I have lived outside the city limits of Rochester, MN for 18 years and cannot recall ever losing power for more than a couple hours and even that happens less than once or twice per year. Thank you for helping me realize how good I have it. 

We get plenty of snow and rain storms but not too many hurricanes so I guess they are able to focus on individual outages as they happen instead of huge volumes of outages happening all at the same time. 

[blackhat]

A $20k generator install?  That’s easy. You need an outdoor rated 200 amp transfer switch instead of a 100 amp interior rated one. Setbacks and clearances mean the generator has to be much further away from the point of cable entry. Trenching cable and propane lines through a yard full of cables and sprinklers. A concrete pad to set it on. Removing or modifying fences to allow a propane tank into the yard plus future access for filling it. A PoCo charge to drop and replace the meter. Code required updates to service entrance and perhaps panel.   Lots of different things can pile up in a hurry.

[Snipe Hunter]

We have a Generac Portable 15,000 which will run he whole house including the 3.5 ton heat pump.. Longest outage was 5 days... that's a lot of back and fourth to the gas station, even with five 5-Gallon cans. And another 7,000 in case the 15000 fails. it will run the fridge, lights and well pump.

No transfer switch at this house. I have an interlock on the 60 amp generator breaker on the main panel so the Gen won't feed power to the panel unless the main breaker is off. I just plug the generator into a wall receptacle, flip off the main breaker and slide the interlock plate over and flip on the 60 amp breaker.

It works fine but again.... lugging fuel is a pain. Not as bad at the last house because we had a wood stove and shut the gen off at night. Heat and running water are a big deal. I now have a 100Gal propane tank and if I ever get around to it, I'll convert the big Gen over to propane.

Something else.. if your power is out for an extended period of time, it may also be out at the gas station... and the gas station down the road. I've driven 20 miles to wait in line to fill cans of gas at 5am in an ice storm and the gas station was out of coffee. It is also dangerous to refuel a Gen when it's hot.

Propane is the way to go.. I can deal without automatic transfer switches. That's a nice luxury, especially if you're wife isn't into filling the Gen every 3 or 4 hours when You're at work,

A 15000 portable is a beast to move, especially if you have to move it uphill. I run mine dry and then drain the carb. If not, there's a strong chance you can't get it running when you need it after it hasn't run in a couple years. You don't have to deal with that when using propane. Always keep a trickle charger on the battery. Don't waste your money on a pull start gen.

[goaliedad]

Food for thought- northern lower Michigan was hit with an epic ice storm almost 2 weeks ago. There are people still without power. Power companies are saying that in a typical year they replace 800 poles- so far they are close to 2300 and counting.
Initially gas was not available.
We have an 8500 watt portable. Luckily I have a neighbor that will get it going if we are gone.
We had a near 40 hour outage in the winter. Propane heat and stove. Electric water heater. We did not run the water heater. At one point the generator tripped a breaker. Seems my wife de used to do laundry- electric dryer. Opps. But 2 fridges and freezer, lights, and electric to support the heat, and water pump was fine.

The key is to have plenty of fuel on hand.