Looking to upgrade to a better miter saw

[HomerLee]

Don't know where the reply went? I goofed somehow. 

I have had the Milwaukee since right after they came out (9 years?). I have had no problems with it.  I have had a Delta, Ryobi, Bosch, Makita and DeWalt and I Like the Milwaukee better than any. I have not had or used the Bosch glider but have heard of a problem with fence interference when the blade is tilted; I do not know exactly what the problem is.

The Milwaukee has the digital display and it still works after all those years.

Its good to hear you are doing hand cut dovetails. Pleasant work compared to dovetail jigs and routers. I picked up a Leigh dovetail jig for $75 at an estate sale. The owner's manual was 150+ pages. I'm too old for that and I put it on Craig's List for $225. Made the buyer and myself very happy.

[KingwoodFan1989]

Don't know where the reply went? I goofed somehow. 

I have had the Milwaukee since right after they came out (9 years?). I have had no problems with it.  I have had a Delta, Ryobi, Bosch, Makita and DeWalt and I Like the Milwaukee better than any. I have not had or used the Bosch glider but have heard of a problem with fence interference when the blade is tilted; I do not know exactly what the problem is.

The Milwaukee has the digital display and it still works after all those years.

Its good to hear you are doing hand cut dovetails. Pleasant work compared to dovetail jigs and routers. I picked up a Leigh dovetail jig for $75 at an estate sale. The owner's manual was 150+ pages. I'm too old for that and I put it on Craig's List for $225. Made the buyer and myself very happy.

I think it might have been a glitch or something. The post I responded to (the one where it looked like you just quoted me and didn't leave a reply of your own) is now after my response, and it now has your response on it. 

I'll keep the Milwaukee 12" slider in mind if I go with used or refurbished. I think I'll have to read the reviews a bit more carefully. It still doesn't have quite as good of reviews as the DeWalt 709 or Hitachi 12" slider. Plus, those are still the only ones that are of the quality and capacity I need and also (occasionally) coming into my price range brand new.

As for the handcut dovetails, I've been practicing them on and off on scrap for the past couple or three weeks as my current project has had to be put on hold (veneer issues, just ordered more and will receive it this next week). I know it's off topic, but I found a video by Rob Cosman (the likely cyborg or demigod woodworker who can freehand pretty much perfectly fitting dovetails within mere minutes) where he uses a shim the same thickness as his dovetail saw and offsets the edge of the tailboard when marking the end grain of the pin board. Essentially, if you do this correctly, your saw cut will fall exactly at the right point and you'll end up with perfectly tight dovetails as long as your cuts are perpendicular to the end of the pin board. My dovetail saw has some blade flex issues, but I've still gotten fairly good results using this method. You can technically just use the saw blade itself as your offsetting shim, but since a toothless surface is better for checking for flush, it helps to have some feeler gauges and just find the one that matches the blade's thickness and maybe go a thousandth lower so it's not TOO snug of a fit when putting the boards together. Here's the vid. He uses his saw itself to set the kerfs in the pin board's end grain, but I use a marking knife.



As I've mentioned before, I've also looked at miter saw reviews on Youtube, and it's from there that I determined Harbor Freight's cheap sliders are not the ones I want. I think every single review that was done after it had been used for many months said that it was more geared towards the hobbyist who does rough carpentry. The consistency of its accuracy seemed to be the main gripe. There's not a whole ton on DeWalt's 709, but I think there are a few on the Milwaukee and Hitachi 12" sliders.

[Kansas City Fireslayer]

I agree with your thought on a smaller 8 1/4” saw. I bought a new Italian Made Dewalt 8.25” slider around 12 years ago and I can’t imagine having a better saw for what I do in the shop.

I went with a smaller size to help eliminate blade flex and deflection. I use a mitersaw for all my crosscuts and miters. It is more accurate for me than my TS, quicker, and I can see where I’m going better. To each there own. I have about 13” of crosscut capacity and I use it anytime it’s an option.

This saw cuts dead nuts square and it has always held its settings. I do wish it was a double bevel as it only tilts to the left. It’s a DW712. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one used if it’s in decent shape.

[KingwoodFan1989]

I agree with your thought on a smaller 8 1/4” saw.  I bought a new Italian Made Dewalt 8.25” slider around 12 years ago and I can’t imagine having a better saw for what I do in the shop.  

I went with a smaller size to help eliminate blade flex and deflection.  I use a mitersaw for all my crosscuts and miters.  It is more accurate for me than my TS, quicker, and I can see where I’m going better.  To each there own.  I have about 13” of crosscut capacity and I use it anytime it’s an option.  

This saw cuts dead nuts square and it has always held its settings.  I do wish it was a double bevel as it only tilts to the left.  It’s a DW712.  I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one used if it’s in decent shape.

I knew DeWalt had a 7.5" (or is it 7.25"?) size slider, but it only cuts to 8" wide. I guess the one you're talking about isn't currently being manufactured. I'll look it up and see how it sounds and keep it in mind if all looks good!

Also, I CANNOT believe I overlooked something so basic to woodworking...a rep from DeWalt called me today on my lunch break and I asked him about the "discrepancy" (you'll see why I put it in quotes in a sec) of 9.5 vs. 10 inches for the 709's crosscut capacity as well as the back fence feature. First off, he pointed out that the "dimensional" capacity is 10 inches wide standard...it kinda clicked then. 2x10 is the NOMINAL size, not the actual (unless you're doing rough lumber)---something I knew before but totally forgot in this case for some reason. So that solves my issue...it cuts to 9.5 inches wide. However, even though I'd prefer it go the whole way to 10", that back fence feature sounded cool and could extend the capacity to about 12" when I'd need to do something 10" or wider (at least for thinner boards, as you have to take off the sliding fence supports to use the back fence feature). I'm still keeping that 709 as a possibility, as even though it falls short by a half inch of my ideal maximum capacity, the back fence capacity could be used in a pinch.

[Stwood_]

If you need to cut a full 10" with a 9-1/2" capacity saw, make the cut pulling the saw all the way out (slider) , then pick up the front of the board, raising it into the blade.
 
That works on a non-slider also.

[KingwoodFan1989]

If you need to cut a full 10" with a 9-1/2" capacity saw, make the cut pulling the saw all the way out (slider) , then pick up the front of the board, raising it into the blade.
 
That works on a non-slider also.

Sounds kinda scary! I think if I end up getting the 709 I'll just use the back fence feature if I need to cut 10" or more. 

[bmich]

I had a kobalt sliding saw 10" model. I removed the fences once to chopping a twisted board and I could never get the fences square again. I sold that one and bought a 12" non sliding dewalt. The Kobalt had a goofy safety handle that could only be operated with using your right hand there was a safety thumb switch that had to be pressed with your right thumb then squeeze the trigger. I hated that. So, I went with the Dewalt 12 incher. I am happy with not having a sliding saw. Takes up too much room on the table and if I need to cut anything wider I use the RAS, or the TS with a sled.

[bmich]

If you need to cut a full 10" with a 9-1/2" capacity saw, make the cut pulling the saw all the way out (slider) , then pick up the front of the board, raising it into the blade.
 
That works on a non-slider also.

I learned that trick from watching Diresta.

[KingwoodFan1989]

I had a kobalt sliding saw 10" model.  I removed the fences once to chopping a twisted board and I could never get the fences square again.  I sold that one and bought a 12" non sliding dewalt.  The Kobalt had a goofy safety handle that could only be operated with using your right hand there was a safety thumb switch that had to be pressed with your right thumb then squeeze the trigger.  I hated that.  So, I went with the Dewalt 12 incher.  I am happy with not having a sliding saw.  Takes up too much room on the table and if I need to cut anything wider I use the RAS, or the TS with a sled.

I think that saw was reviewed in a past issue of WOOD magazine among other 10" sliders. I just found a video of a guy using DeWalt's "back fence" feature, although it was done with a 780 and so you end up with an even wider cut than the 709 can make. It leaves the fence assembly in place, only removing the sliding parts, so I don't think there's any risk of the fence system being knocked out of square. It does require some prep besides just that, though, and judging by the size of the small tabs acting as the "back fence", I don't think you'd want to cut anything that was thicker than about an inch. However, I can't ever see myself cutting something wider than about 8-10" unless it's an inch thick or less anyway, so it's not like this would be a common event. That Hitachi 12" slider is still kinda tempting, though, and I still have to check out the smaller, discontinued DeWalt slider that someone mentioned earlier and see what it sells for used.

[Tapper]

Don't know where the reply went? I goofed somehow. 

I have had the Milwaukee since right after they came out (9 years?). I have had no problems with it.  I have had a Delta, Ryobi, Bosch, Makita and DeWalt and I Like the Milwaukee better than any. I have not had or used the Bosch glider but have heard of a problem with fence interference when the blade is tilted; I do not know exactly what the problem is.

The Milwaukee has the digital display and it still works after all those years.

Its good to hear you are doing hand cut dovetails. Pleasant work compared to dovetail jigs and routers. I picked up a Leigh dovetail jig for $75 at an estate sale. The owner's manual was 150+ pages. I'm too old for that and I put it on Craig's List for $225. Made the buyer and myself very happy.

Another vote for the 12" Milwaukee slider. I have it and an older Dewalt single bevel CMS; find myself using the Milwaukee most of the time. This saw is dual bevel and the bevel settings are the easiest to set and lock in place of any saw I've seen. As was mentioned it has a digital readout along with a built in light for better vision on the work. I have been working on a project in my shop recently where I needed some rough dados for clearance. This saw also has a dado feature that really comes in handy. 

Although I haven't looked at the offerings in a few years now, were I in the market again I'd look at this one first - YMMV.

Doug