Plane advice

[wmickley]

I recommend either a #4 or a #5 plane. The jack plane (5) is probably better suited for the task you have in mind but the smoothing plane (4)is more useful for a variety of other tasks you may think of once you learn to use it. I think eventually you will want one of each.

The #4 1/2 and the 5 1/2 are heavier and clumsier, which is the reason not very many have been sold; there are twenty or forty #4 and 5 for each of their wider cousins.

Likewise the "low angle jack" has not had nearly the sales of the more sophisticated #5 (double iron plane). It is just not as versatile.

[Derek Cohen]

I do indeed have a LA Jack....Wood River #62.....Seems to bI do indeed have a LA Jack....Wood River #62.....Seems to be a tear-out machine.  I use mainly Ash in the projects I have been doing...best use for it was either across the grain....or, as a jointer....and, it had issues doing the jointer work....too bloody heavy for such a short plane, hard to keep upright as a jointer....I kept winding up with a beveled edge, instead of a 90 degree edge.  e a tear-out machine.  I use mainly Ash in the projects I have been doing...best use for it was either across the grain....or, as a jointer....and, it had issues doing the jointer work....too bloody heavy for such a short plane, hard to keep upright as a jointer....I kept winding up with a beveled edge, instead of a 90 degree edge.  

[snip]

Steven, you get tearout because you insist on using the Stanley LA Jack you have inappropriately. You simply refuse to accept advice and become bloody-minded about doing it your way. Of course you will get tearout on face- and edge grain (especially any reversing grain) with a 25 degree bevel, which you state you use (because it was the angle that came with the plane). That creates a cutting angle of 37 degrees for a single iron plane. Ridiculous! 

I only write this response since your post must not be used as reliable information. 

The remainder of your commentary is about user-error, not tool-error.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

I recommend either a #4 or a #5 plane. The jack plane (5) is probably better suited for the task you have in mind but the smoothing plane (4)is more useful for a variety of other tasks you may think of once you learn to use it. I think eventually you will want one of each.

The #4 1/2 and the 5 1/2 are heavier and clumsier, which is the reason not very many have been sold; there are twenty or forty #4 and 5 for each of their wider cousins.

Likewise the "low angle jack" has not had nearly the sales of the more sophisticated #5 (double iron plane). It is just not as versatile.

 
Warren, I agree that a #5 is a more sensible plane for coarse work, and a #4 is better suited to smoothing. I also agree that the #4 1/2 and #5 1/2 are heavy and clumsy planes. There are times when I do reach for a #4 1/2, such as smoothing wide panels, but I prefer a #3-size for smoothing most work. The #3 and #4 are significantly shorter than a #5 and #5 1/2, and (for those unaware of the differences made by a shorter plane when smoothing) this translates into a better ability to follow the surface and take off less thickness. I really cannot find a reason to own a #5 1/2.

The LA Jack is rightfully called a "jack-of-all-trades", as is a #5 (and #5 1/2). They may be put to good use, but not as good as dedicated planes in specialist areas. The LA jack is a excellent all rounder for those that want one plane to act as a short jointer, smoother for boards prepared on a power jointer, excellent shooting plane, and reasonable coarse jack/scrub plane (too heavy to use like this for long). It remains a good plane for the OP to set up, if he has one already.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bandit571]

Steven, you get tearout because you insist on using the Stanley LA Jack you have inappropriately. You simply refuse to accept advice and become bloody-minded about doing it your way. Of course you will get tearout on face- and edge grain (especially any reversing grain) with a 25 degree bevel, which you state you use (because it was the angle that came with the plane). That creates a cutting angle of 37 degrees for a single iron plane. Ridiculous! 

I only write this response since your post must not be used as reliable information. 

The remainder of your commentary is about user-error, not tool-error.

Regards from Perth

Derek

What an absolute pile of BS.....about the ONLY item you were even close to being right on...the USER half....I USE these planes...A LOT...

I also prefer the #6c to the #5-1/2 as a jointer.  May come as a shock...most woodworker are unable to even get a stick of "Jarrah"   Most have to "make do" with the more "common" hard woods...like the Maples, the Oaks...and the Ash like I use a lot of.....

Go back to being a Veritas salesman.....

[Greg Jones]

...In my opinion, a LA Jack is optimum at two cutting angles: either very low (25 degree bevel) for shooting end grain or planing across the grain (traversing), and at very high angles (50 degree bevel) for planing interlocked face or edge grain...

Derek, I don’t disagree about your conclusions based on your experiences with a LA Jack, but your experiences are of course based on the wood species that you have the most experience with. My experiences are, for the most part, limited to the hardwoods common to the USA South-Central Appalachia region, which includes cherry, black walnut, oak, ash, maple, poplar, and pine. None of these species, for the most part, consistently creates a serious tear out problem although I confess that maple has caused me fits. My choice for the optimum cutting angle in a BU Jack is an iron sharpened to 35-38* for an final cutting angle of 47-50*. In the cases where tear out does begin to occur, tightening up the mouth of the BJ Jack works most of the time. 

My BU shooting board plane blade is sharpened to 25*, but I never use a 25* blade in the BU Jack.

[AHill]

What an absolute pile of BS.....about the ONLY item you were even close to being right on...the USER half....I USE these planes...A LOT...

So, please enlighten us on what bevel angle you are using on your Wood River No. 62.  Inquiring minds want to know.  Given you are almost exclusively a hand tool woodworker, I'm surprised you believe that just because it's a LAJ, it's a tearout machine.  Before I learned how to properly set a chipbreaker to prevent tearout, my Veritas LAJ with a bevel bringing the cutting angle to around 62 deg tackled almost every wood thrown at it with ease.  If you're getting tearout with a LAJ on ash, then something's wrong and it's not the tool.  Ash is a splinter-prone wood (very open pores), and it's more prone to tearout when planing.  The solution is a very sharp blade, finer (thinner) shavings, a tight mouth, closely set chipbreaker (bevel up bench planes) or higher cutting angle (bevel up / low angle planes).

[Derek Cohen]

My choice for the optimum cutting angle in a BU Jack is an iron sharpened to 35-38* for an final cutting angle of 47-50*. In the cases where tear out does begin to occur, tightening up the mouth of the BJ Jack works most of the time.

My BU shooting board plane blade is sharpened to 25*, but I never use a 25* blade in the BU Jack.

Greg, my point is that a BU or LA Jack may be used for a number if tasks, and each may require a different blade set up. I can be reasonably prescriptive of the angle of the blade for face grain since using a 25 degree bevel (equals 37 degree cutting angle) is very likely going to create tearout on any wood where there is a possibility of reversing grain. It will simply scoop it up. This has nothing to do with planing Australian hardwoods.

At the other end of the spectrum, shooting end grain is less effortful and creates a better finish when the cutting angle is low. In the past I had much experience using a HNT Gordon Trying Plane, which has a 60 degree bed (bevel down). It works well, but is not in the same class as a LA Jack with a 37 degree cutting angle (ie. using a 25 degree bevel on a 12 degree bed). This latter combination is so successful that I built a strike block plane, which has a 37 degree bed. This also uses a 25 degree bevel.





Using a 25 degree bevel on a 12 degree BU plane for shooting is far more durable than using a 30 degree bevel on a 45 degree BD plane. Even A2 steel. I have both the Veritas shooting plane (12 degree bed) and LN #51 (45 degree bed), and compared them extensively for edge holding. The Veritas, with the 12 degree BU configuration, left the BD configuration for dust ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews...Plane.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Jones]

Derek, we are in agreement with the utility and challenges of a 25* blade. My point was that while you fine the 25* and 50* blades to be the optimal grinds for use in a BUJ, I find, with the wood I work with, that the 38* blade has the most utility.

[bandit571]

So, please enlighten us on what bevel angle you are using on your Wood River No. 62.  Inquiring minds want to know.  Given you are almost exclusively a hand tool woodworker, I'm surprised you believe that just because it's a LAJ, it's a tearout machine.  Before I learned how to properly set a chipbreaker to prevent tearout, my Veritas LAJ with a bevel bringing the cutting angle to around 62 deg tackled almost every wood thrown at it with ease.  If you're getting tearout with a LAJ on ash, then something's wrong and it's not the tool.  Ash is a splinter-prone wood (very open pores), and it's more prone to tearout when planing.  The solution is a very sharp blade, finer (thinner) shavings, a tight mouth, closely set chipbreaker (bevel up bench planes) or higher cutting angle (bevel up / low angle planes).

In use..

   
factory 25 degree bevel...running downhill to final smooth the tapers on the Ash legs..with a glue joint right down the middle..

   
Board wasn't all that long..jointer of choice is the Millers Falls No. 14....25 degree single, straight bevel...

   
Was also the first plane used on the tapers, to remove and flatten saw marks...not too bad...for a simple, BD Jack plane..

   
Flattening the glue joints, on a table top....Stanley No.3, Type 11, OEM iron, 25 degrees..bevel down....Grain was fun to plane, too..

   
Then, after a coat of stain, and a wipe down..

   
Wood is Quarter sawn Ash....
As for using a shooting board.....why?

   
No need for one....

OEM mouth on the planes I use.   Chipbreaker is set back from the edge 1mm.   A "tight mouth" merely clogs up....I want the shavings tocome up out of the plane...but, it does get a little annoying when they wrap around my wrist.   takes "forever" to get them off.
I use to have a York Pitch No. 3...was not impressed....got the same results with a NORMAL No.3 plane....and, with less effort.  

One plane, with HOW many irons...plus the time to change and set them......i can simply reach over to the plane til, and grab the next already set up plane, and be done, by the time you have the next iron ready to go.....I'm done with the task.

[AHill]

So, Bandit, you've pretty much confirmed Derek's assertion that you are using a LAJ with a 25 deg bevel - which equates to a 37 deg cutting angle. This is a recipe for tearout, no matter which direction you're planing. So, the way you are using it pretty much guarantees tearout with ash.

I'm glad you have found a solution with your BD bench planes. In your case, you have enough planes to have unique setups for each task. The OP, however, only has a limited stable of planes. My suggestion for a LAJ with multiple blades is a more affordable solution than purchasing multiple planes, each set up differently. As I have mentioned before, it only takes about 30 sec to swap blades on a LAJ. Not a time deal-breaker IMO. Your work habits work for you. Other folks find different methods work better for them.