Microbevel on a chisel is no good for bevel down work

[adamcherubini]

We should probably laugh at ourselves -- guys in their 50s and 60s well past physical prime talking about edge life of tools when we couldn't plane for 30 minutes without popping a nitroglycerine tablet.  The need to hone has probably prevented more than a few infarctions.

Maybe I learned from Warren, but I sharpen almost continuously. Little touch ups, every hour or less. I always have a sharp tool in my hand and my tools never need grinding (almost never).

When I started, I was absolutely chasing edge retention so that I could put off sharpening until I finished a project. I found myself struggling with dull tools and spending a lot of time honing and grinding.

Now I’m a much better sharpener. I’m finding cheaper tools like my $4 Stanley #50 chisels, perfectly adequate for some jobs.

[Derek Cohen]

Doing OK.  Cold as it can be here, today, but supposed to warm up a little.  We had a high of close to 80* the other day, and then snow less than 14 hours later.  Wild!

From afar, snow sounds quite romantic. A lot of the overseas trips we have done at over December/January, which translates to snow in the Northern Hemisphere. It is fun when a novelty, but I not cope living with it - hate the extreme cold and find it paralyzing. No doubt you would find the extreme heat here - much like a snow storm - just as uncomfortable. Christmas day was 110* F. Much of our summer runs around 90-100, which is surprisingly bearable as there is no humidity. But those 110 days leave you wiped out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[tablesawtom]

Some will argue that a flat grind on a chisel is the way to go. I have a friend that said he like flat grinds. I said something to another friend of his that is also a wood worker and he said John likes a flat grind because his grinder produced a flat edge. He would be in favor of a hollow grind id his grinder produce one. I believe that a Work Sharp produces a flat ground edge, but I am not sure. I have never used one.

On the record ! I do not have an opinion one way or the other. If you prefer a flat ground bevel go for it. I know I prefer a flat ground surface on a lathe skew verses a hollow ground one but that is my preference. A hollow grind or a flat grind is personal choice and nether is any better in that persons hand.

As can be seen in an other post I prefer a hollow ground chisel and plane blade.  I also prefer a honing guide verses sharpening free hand. Once it is originally sharpened, I can put it back in the honing guide at exactly the same angle it was sharpened at and it only takes about 30 seconds on a 1000 grit water stone and then about 15 seconds on a 3000 and a 8000 grit stone and the cutting edge is restored. What some call a micro bevel is really only a secondary angle. I prefer this type of sharpening because I do not have to remove the whole surface like on a flat grind but only a small amount right at the cutting edge. Only a small amount , short lost time to sharpening and back to work.

Frank Klausz on the other hand prefers free hand sharpening. His chisels are hollow ground and then the edge is found by resting the chisel on the back part of the angle and the cutting edge and sharpening it by hand. He still has a small secondary bevel and so does the top of the secondary bevel and his sharpening would be the type of sharpening this post is about in the first place.

The problem I have with his method is, he apprenticed for 4 years in a behind an iron curtain country. He has made his living all of his life and he learned how to sharpen when his hands were is young and worked right. My problem is not with his method of sharpening, My problem is with thumbs that have arthritic in them. Would I sharpen his way if I could, yes in a heart beat. It would be so fast. Would it work for bevel down cutting ? Yes it would.

With my method I can not go rear of the bevel down because I have a secondary bevel that is not co-planner with the heal and cutting edge . I lift the handle, find the cutting edge, just like on a lathe, cut what I have to cut and get on with my life.

[tablesawtom]

To Derick,

It was 12 degrees below zero when I got up today and there is about 6 inches snow on the ground. It is not romantic. Summers here in Iowa are for the most part high 80s low 90s but with several 100 plus days thrown in And we have high humidity most all year long. Corn likes high heat and high humidity. I live in a town of about 1200 people and 15-17 miles from a stop light. And I love it here.

Tom

[adamcherubini]

Honing a microbevel is probably the quickest way to get a tool sharp. The ruler trick is similar in my opinion.

Using a chisel with a microbevel is probably easier for me to control than without one. I can control the cut by rolling the chisel on the microbevel. I think I make my microbevels pretty big. They aren’t 4 swipes or some such.

[tablesawtom]

Honing a microbevel is probably the quickest way to get a tool sharp. The ruler trick is similar in my opinion.

Using a chisel with a microbevel is probably easier for me to control than without one. I can control the cut by rolling the chisel on the microbevel. I think I make my microbevels pretty big. They aren’t 4 swipes or some such.

I know some refer ( anyway to me ) to a secondary bevel as a micro bevel. And yes yes I agree with you 100%. My micro or secondary bevels get wider every time I sharpen,  until I have to hone to much steel to sharpen whatever is being cut. Once my primary bevel is over half used up and the secondary bevel is to large then I regrind.

I did a post about sharpening a Chisel and on it I showed flattening the chisel on the side of a CBN wheel. the same holds true for plane blades and so  I do not use the ruler trick any more.

Tom

[adamcherubini]

One has to be careful flattening a plane or chisel back on a wheel. The problem with wheels is that the outer portion is cutting faster than the inner portion. So what ever you did, Tom, you were careful and used a technique some guys won’t know about.

My little worksharp has the same problem. It doesn’t really do what I thought it would. I think even a belt sander cuts more on the leading edge side than the trailing edge side. Flattening blades is complicated, I think.

[bandit571]

Only IF one over-thinks it....

[Derek Cohen]

I was preparing for a dovetailing workshop next weekend, checking that my travelling kit was clean and sharp. This is a chance to look at the hollow grinding.

These are Veritas O1 chisels (no longer available). I made the 1/8" and 3/8" fishtail chisels from some pre-production Veritas chisels (when road testing). The 1/8" was a 1/4" - the was before Veritas made smaller than 1/4". I know that Veritas have plans for a fishtail, but no idea when it will be produced, or whether it will resemble mine.



The hollows are ground at 32 degrees, and then honed directly on the hollow. This creates a micro bevel without a secondary ... on other words, coplanar with the primary bevel.





Regards from Perth

Derek

[adamcherubini]

Beautiful, Derek.

I have true secondary bevels on my dovetail chisels. I grind pretty low, maybe 20-25 degrees, then hone higher. I think there’s an advantage to a convex bevel when chopping. I think it doesn’t take many hits before your chisel becomes a wedge. This is just another advantage to a micro or secondary bevel.

I’m not sure micro bevel or secondary bevel language means much for what I’m talking about. I think even if the last half or third of your bevel is convex, you’re good.