Table Top Recommendation Needed

[lift mechanic]

I am almost done with my dining room table. I have dyed and stained to the color I want. Watco Dark Walnut and Aniline Fumed Lt. Oak dye. I was planning on using General Finishes Arm-A-Seal oil and urethane top coat. But I can not find it here in California. At least it can not be shipped here.
So what other recommendation does everyone have. I would like something easy to apply, wipe on maybe.
Living in California is becoming a PITA, I guess that is why I have my house for sale. Montana and bigger shop here I come , I hope.

[jteneyck]

Arm-R-Seal is very nice but I think others have said you can't get it in CA so, with that in mind, I think you need to look at waterborne products. You might consider General Finishes EnduroVar. You can't wipe it on, or at least I don't think you can but I'm often wrong so...., but you can apply it with a foam brush or spray. I've done some reasonably large panels with a foam brush and they came out very nice. I can't say I've ever tried doing some as large as a table top by hand though. I spray most of the time.

EnduroVar should be available in CA and it is very durable. Make sure your stain has dried for at least 72 hours before applying EnduroVar to it. It wouldn't hurt to spray a light sealer coat of Zinsser rattle can shellac on it first to make sure there are no bonding issues.

John

[daveferg]

Only place I've ever seen General products as at Woodcraft. However, I've been using Minwax oil-based poly for such projects for years----thinned to a wipe on (50/50) and yet to have a failure, water damage, etc.----about 4-5 wipe-on coats should do the trick---they dry so fast, its likely just a 2 day project.

[JR1]

I agree with John, waterborne finishes are the way to go. Dinning room tables tend to be hard use so I would go with GF EnduroVar or Crystalac PolyOx. I have wiped them on a couple small pieces but a foam brush works much better. Spray is easier still. They are <1 hour to recoat and completely cured in 72 hours. No stink and they are more durable than most oils also easier to apply.

[daveferg]

Not looking to get in an argument---just asking a question. Many others also suggest waterborne finishes as well, but can anyone point to any actual tests of durability between the two finishes?

I'd never discount the advantages of waterborne as far as easy clean-up and fewer vapors---but to me the bottom line is how does the finish hold up against use, food, drinks and water?

[JR1]

John did a good test of chemical resistance a while back (around a year I think). As I remember Enduro-Var and Arm-R-Seal were the most resistant and the only two tested with even a partial resistance to Acetone.

We all know or at least have a good idea how to test for chemical resistance and for adhesion. Unfortunately I really don't know how to test for durability except in use and that's not a real test unless the products are exposed to the same conditions. If any one has a feasible durability test I would be happy to hear about it. I have checked and while there are tests cf. Testing of Wood Finishes for Durability - June 2004¹ they are pure weather exposure tests and not that relevant. I can't find any test or standard for testing abrasion resistance for instance. There is a you tube video showing testing using a Taber machiene taber machine

This is an expensive lab device and not available for rent around here. It is specified via ASTM D4060 and there labs which perform it for a considerable fee.

¹ This set off tests is for wood slats used in pickup beds.

[daveferg]

Very interesting!

I do think you could get carried away with this. The question is who would sponsor the tests, as most mfgs. make both types. But, (alert---free idea for someone interested), we're not talking bout brain surgery.

Tests could include:

---spilling an alcohol drink
---standing water, such as if a wet rag were laid on the table
---spills of various types of food/drink
---and general wear/abrasion---rubbing various cloth products over the finish.

Side-by-side samples are the easiest to use for such tests.

If someone uses an objective method of testing, it would make for an interesting magazine article.

[jteneyck]

I've posted test results a couple of times. I've tested GF's Gel Urethane Topcoat, EnduroVar, HP Poly and Arm-R-Seal, Sealcoat shellac, and ACE oil based polyurethane. I tested resistance to ketchup, mustard, port wine, 409, acetone, DNA, a sweaty glass of ice water, and heated coffee mugs up to around 300 F. I don't remember all the results, but I do remember that the only product that stood up to everything with no damage was Arm-R-Seal. I also remember that EnduroVar was damaged by nothing except acetone, and was substantially better than oil based polyurethane. No surprise, shellac had the least resistance to most chemicals, and GF's Gel Urethane Topcoat also tested very poorly. HP Poly was damaged badly by 409 and acetone, and also sustained damage by DNA and the heated cups.

John

[JR1]

The problem that I see is the cost. I could see doing some finishes that I use or have access too but there are hundreds of common finishes.

[cputnam]

Smuggle